Montana: “No country for old men” (and women) – Or not? (Billings: loan, how much)

[alooknac]

The two reasons for preferring BZN to MSO that immediately popped to mind are sunshine and no smog. Some other reasons are that MSO has more of a reputation for "trustafarians" than BZN (i.e., pretentious, over-the-top 20-something explorers of life who in a few years will move to something/someplace else). Also, I used to live in a town outside Billings, so BZN would be closer for me to visit my friends. BZN is closer to Yellowstone than MSO is to Glacier Natl Park.

And I feel MSO has let homeless people get out of hand. A few years ago I went to a big music festival downtown. I parked next to the courthouse, a block and a half away. I was aggressively panhandled before I was even all the way out of my car. Talk about in your face! I was very uncomfortable. Then I had to walk a gauntlet of homeless people sitting on a park bench a few yards away as they made rude comments towards me. I had to make arrangements to avoid walking back to my car alone later in the dark. As I drove away I locked my car doors--at that point in my life, I had never done that in Montana!

Somehow, IMHO, MSO's liberalism has kept it from addressing homelessness when it comes to people hanging out (living) on the city streets. I know there is a fine line and I have not been following the issue since then, but MSO has/had no vagrancy laws. I think it was/is legal to roll out your bag and sleep on the downtown sidewalk. This was a concern of downtown businesses and I don't know if it has been resolved.

MSO has addressed homelessness in the way of shelters, soup kitchens, etc., but there seems to be a hard core of people who choose to live a homeless lifestyle and MSO is/was just letting them do it right downtown. I have not been to downtown MSO since then and I am one who always loves city centers and in-town neighborhoods.

I have spent several weekends in BZN in the same time period and never felt uncomfortable.

The area south of MSO is called the Bitterroot Valley or just the Bitterroot and it has several towns that may be appealing, but quite small--Hamilton and Stevensville. It's far enough from where I live and since I am usually going somewhere else, I haven't explored the Bitterroot but only hear good things about it. Bad marks on sunshine though.

[Hawknest]

Originally Posted by historyfan

South Dakota, Wyoming, & Nebraska are in best fiscal shape with no debt.

The states without deficits are: ND, AK & MT in that order

WY has 10.3% def
NE has 9.7% def

[historyfan]

My info came from Pew Research Center.
http://www.pewstates.org/research/st...te-85899399345

There are also in depth reports for each state. The rating for munis gives the detail on three states without debt.

[Hawknest]

Originally Posted by historyfan

My info came from Pew Research Center.
Montana Pensions Update - Pew

It would be from the Left leaners. Mine is from Wall Street - right leaners


The Best and Worst Run States in America: A Survey of All 50 - 24/7 Wall St.

[rangerider]

Originally Posted by bongo

Since living in Montana this past year, I have been amazed at the number of healthy, active old folks on the ski trails, downhill skiing, hiking, etc. Plus horseback riding, ranching, etc. Perhaps it's the keeping active that is the secret.

I firmly believe that..I was several miles into the Beartooth Plateau last year and met a husband and wife in their seventies on the way out - the weather was not the best right then and I couldn't blame them. We had 36 more hours of snow and rain before the high country shook it off and was in the 60s again.

People do, and deservedly so, complain about the winter climate being somewhat less friendly than, say Scottsdale AZ. I won't deny that, but have a couple points:

1) Snow and ice can be tougher to get around in. But if you're an active person who keeps up on balance and strength, take care, screw #4 sheet metal screws into your winter boots and you'll do okay. I know lots of older folks who not only get around fine but some who mirror those you talk about. It does take some work. I'm turning 53 shortly, but still go out and play hard with the 30 year olds on a regular basis. To be fair, most of the guys I have bummed around with for a long time have largely give that up - maybe I'm not so smart. But look at the Bridger Ridge Run; Scott Creel won it in '11 at age 49. A woman in her 60s broke her arm partway through and finished the race. Quite a few people showing some gray are playing hard at several different things around here.

And that's not counting the older farm and ranch people who are still taking care of business, which can be a tough go, well into their seventies and even eighties.

2) The air and water are fairly pure most areas, and the long and generally cold winter kills off a lot of little critters and molds that adversely affect health. You can't do much to fight genetics, but I feel there is a lot to be said for intaking clean air and water, and eating smart. I catch a flu bug maybe once every two or three years, but other than that stay healthy. If my job actually allowed me to get adequate rest, I think I could do a bit better yet.

[Heart]

After living in the Bitterroot outside of Missoula for almost six years, I just do not get the appeal of Missoula as a place to put roots down. I did everything I could to avoid going there for various reasons. I'm a young person, and I just don't like the college town vibe. I preferred keeping to Lolo all the way down to Darby. I recently moved away from the Bitterroot into the Flathead which has proven to be the wrong choice for me. I do feel the weather around the lake here is more grey. I think there were more sunny days in the Bitterroot compared to here. If a person has a hard time with lack of sun, they would definitely not want to come here for winter.

If given the choice as to where I'll put roots down for good, it's going to definitely be the Lolo or Florence area. My in laws live in Florence and are very happy there.

[Heart]

Originally Posted by alooknac

The two reasons for preferring BZN to MSO that immediately popped to mind are sunshine and no smog. Some other reasons are that MSO has more of a reputation for "trustafarians" than BZN (i.e., pretentious, over-the-top 20-something explorers of life who in a few years will move to something/someplace else). Also, I used to live in a town outside Billings, so BZN would be closer for me to visit my friends. BZN is closer to Yellowstone than MSO is to Glacier Natl Park.

And I feel MSO has let homeless people get out of hand. A few years ago I went to a big music festival downtown. I parked next to the courthouse, a block and a half away. I was aggressively panhandled before I was even all the way out of my car. Talk about in your face! I was very uncomfortable. Then I had to walk a gauntlet of homeless people sitting on a park bench a few yards away as they made rude comments towards me. I had to make arrangements to avoid walking back to my car alone later in the dark. As I drove away I locked my car doors--at that point in my life, I had never done that in Montana!

Somehow, IMHO, MSO's liberalism has kept it from addressing homelessness when it comes to people hanging out (living) on the city streets. I know there is a fine line and I have not been following the issue since then, but MSO has/had no vagrancy laws. I think it was/is legal to roll out your bag and sleep on the downtown sidewalk. This was a concern of downtown businesses and I don't know if it has been resolved.

MSO has addressed homelessness in the way of shelters, soup kitchens, etc., but there seems to be a hard core of people who choose to live a homeless lifestyle and MSO is/was just letting them do it right downtown. I have not been to downtown MSO since then and I am one who always loves city centers and in-town neighborhoods.

I have spent several weekends in BZN in the same time period and never felt uncomfortable.

The area south of MSO is called the Bitterroot Valley or just the Bitterroot and it has several towns that may be appealing, but quite small--Hamilton and Stevensville. It's far enough from where I live and since I am usually going somewhere else, I haven't explored the Bitterroot but only hear good things about it. Bad marks on sunshine though.

One of many reasons we avoided downtown in Missoula was the homeless problems. On our anniversary we were verbally attacked by a group of homeless by Caras Park. We ignored them and moved on into the Wilma for supper. Came back out and they had defecated and urinated by our truck doors. Then there was the time some random girl on Higgins lifted up her shirt right in front of my little girl as we were walking into a diner... then someone stole our sticker off our plate on our truck, and a multitude of other things I didn't care for.

This was in 2010 and that is the last time we went into Missoula for anything fun. Every trip was strictly for grocery or doctor.

Before that we were hit by a drunk driver there, so... I'll just keep out of Missoula.

[montygarlic]

Originally Posted by Heart

...I recently moved away from the Bitterroot into the Flathead which has proven to be the wrong choice for me. I do feel the weather around the lake here is more grey. I think there were more sunny days in the Bitterroot compared to here. If a person has a hard time with lack of sun, they would definitely not want to come here for winter.

If given the choice as to where I'll put roots down for good, it's going to definitely be the Lolo or Florence area. My in laws live in Florence and are very happy there.

Hey there, Heart! Just by way of clearing up a misconception: You live in Polson, right? The Mission Valley Includes Polson.

You won't really be in the Flathead Valley unless you get north of the lake by that name.

[Hawknest]

Originally Posted by rangerider

1) Snow and ice can be tougher to get around in. But if you're an active person who keeps up on balance and strength, take care, screw #4 sheet metal screws into your winter boots and you'll do okay.

Better screw them downward and not the opposite direction

2) The air and water are fairly pure most areas, and the long and generally cold winter kills off a lot of little critters and molds that adversely affect health. You can't do much to fight genetics, but I feel there is a lot to be said for intaking clean air and water, and eating smart. I catch a flu bug maybe once every two or three years, but other than that stay healthy. If my job actually allowed me to get adequate rest, I think I could do a bit better yet.

Actually, we get the flu just as often in the wilds of the YT where it's -30C everyday, than we would if we lived in KY-TN where the temps fluctuate

[alooknac]

Originally Posted by montygarlic

Hey there, Heart! Just by way of clearing up a misconception: You live in Polson, right? The Mission Valley Includes Polson.

You won't really be in the Flathead Valley unless you get north of the lake by that name.

Polson is on Flathead Lake, so it qualifies as part of "the Flathead" meaning the Flathead Valley. It's also part of the Mission Valley. It's the southernmost point of the Flathead and the northernmost point of the Mission.