Moving to Montana (sight unseen) (Billings, Missoula: violent crime, neighborhoods, public schools)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Being from nyc “horribly overcrowded” means nothing to me, it will feel like a deserted island compared to this. I’m not picky. I just need great public education, low crime, friendly community and tolerable climate. Nice to see something positive about the winters there! If native Montanans haven’t experienced winters here it would be easy to assume they’re milder and we couldn’t handle it.. because of the humidity here our winters are actually super harsh. It will be 30 degrees but real feel is always much lower.
Any thoughts on Billings? A majority of his union offers seem centered there.
I found Billings to be quite ugly. They get a lot of hail at times (big destroy your car and siding hail) and it's a lot of oil and gas types with huge trucks rolling coal.
But I only visited a couple times. Probably didn't see all of it, esp the good parts (but you see the ugly parts from the interstate). It does tend to be a little warmer than west of Bozeman.
But I'm with you on the east coast winter. I left MT once and flew to DC. It was 25 and sunny when I left MT. I was in a long sleeved shirt.
It was 50 and raining when I got to DC. I had to dig a jacket out. It was cold to the bone.
I've been outside, no gloves, a ball cap, and a jacket open all the way in the front with a sweater and jeans in -35.
Now at night -35 is cold. If the wind is howling. It's cold. If you're broken on the side of the road it's cold.
But I was warmer at -35 in Great Falls with an open jacket and no gloves than I ever was at 45 degrees on the East Coast.
Simple things like buying a house that faces South makes a huge difference.
Winter tends to hang around, esp at night, from late Oct to mid-late June. It will still freeze many nights. But days are brilliant.
Please do yourself a favor and watch videos about actually living in MT and not just the glossy tourism or Realtor videos. Despite your romantic ideas, most Montanans don't live on ranches with "miles of space in either direction". I know a handful of "cowboys". It's quite expensive to live on acreage. And ranching is serious business. Not to be taken lightly because it looks fun on t.v..
Have you researched the differences between these four towns? They're all very different. He won't make great money in any of them. Butte is the cheapest but also the roughest.
The weather varies along I-90. Missoula and Billings are 350 miles apart and the continental divide separates Missoula from Butte, Bozeman, and Billings. Overcast and moisture on one side, dry and WINDY on the other. Bozeman and Butte get the coldest. Bozeman gets the most snow. You'll see temps below 0 every year in all of these towns. Not many days but you'll see them.
It's silly to worry about wildlife.
For what it's worth, I moved to Montana sight unseen without a job or house lined up. I didn't know anyone and it was before the internet is what it is. My boyfriend at the time and I just packed up what we could fit and drove away. But we were only 21 at the time. It was the best decision we've ever made but that's a lot different that uprooting an established family. We also got over the novelty of Montana and moved away eventually.
You probably will be treated like outsiders. At least for a little while.
Does the rest of your family share your desires? I can't imagine yanking kids from city life and the only life they've ever known to go play little house on the prairie against their will.
Lol. The way you wrote that. So direct, and no-nonsense, and hearty, and light touches of humor. If I were her, that's exactly what I would have needed to hear.
I think you're nuts. Why not just move to northern New York to get a feel of a more rural area with rough winters? If you can't deal with that, you've got no shot in Montana.
I find some of the comments about Billings quite interesting.
I live about 5 miles from Billings Heights, on what we call a "mini-farm" (less than 2 acres). We been here for about 15 years.
Oh, yeah, our winters can have as much as three feet of snow at least once, and it can be 20 to 30 below zero for weeks at a time. But, we have two ATVs with snow plows, and lots of warm clothes, hats, gloves (mittens are best) and boots. We live 1/10th of a mile from the county road, so we have to plow the lane ourselves. Last winter we drove a 4X4 Dodge 2500, a Jeep Wrangler, and a PT Cruiser convertible. I seldom had to use 4X4. Even forgot to put the ATV in four wheel drive when plowing snow! I did have chains on the rear wheels, though.
When I first came to Billings in about 1948, (from Pennsylvania) my step-father said that Billings was an overgrown cowtown with delusions of grandeur. In some respects, it still is.
We like it here.
Here goes. I might burst your bubble on this one and I'll offend a few regulars. Bear with me.
For numerous reasons we are uprooting our family from nyc and seeking a fresh start, far away from the city and everything we’ve ever known.
I’ve always romanticized Montana. I’ve spent years idly googling pictures of it’s beautiful landscapes, watching youtube videos and becoming enamored with it’s beauty. I don’t know how I can be obsessed with a state I’ve never even visited but everything about it just seems to call to me. The small town western charm, cowboys, all that wide open space. I’ve been drawn to it from the second I knew a place like this existed in the U.S —
You started by saying you romanticize Montana. That alone is not a reason to move anywhere in my opinion. What are you romanticizing? I say to anyone who wants to move there and romanticizes it that you can't eat scenery and your problems will likely follow you. What are you trying to escape?
That said our biggest hesitation is the weather and wildlife (bears, snakes) etc. We are from Brooklyn. Needless to say this would be a massive paradigm shift. We don’t hunt, we don’t hike, we don’t camp... yet I can see us settled in a sprawling ranch with miles of space in either direction, hills at the backdrop. Maybe even horse or two. My husband has job opportunities in specific areas, we have to follow the money as his career is very niche and limited (union). Butte, Billings, Bozeman and Missoula are the prospects employment wise. It’s concerning that he earns well over 6 figures but we are not seeing that salary in MT for the same position. I know cost of living is much lower so it’s relative, but it’s a (significant) drop.
If you don't like to hunt or camp you're almost guaranteed in the bigger cities to never see bears or mountain lions and are extremely unlikely to see rattlesnakes. You're not into outdoorsy activities but want to ranch? How does that work? If you don't like outdoorsy activities Montana would be pretty boring. You are right to check on salaries and cost of living. In many of the more desirable locations the cost of living is high and you'll want a salary to support that.
Lastly how bad are the winters exactly? Winters here can get pretty brutal. I don’t mind the snow but the freezing temperatures and wind are really hard to bare. If anyone here has experienced winters in nyc - how does this compare? Also how big of a threat is the wildlife in day to day living?
It can get cold and snowy but is not humid like on the coast. Unless you're living in the woods in a tent with raw meat strapped to you wildlife will have no effect on day to day life. If you're a rancher there is some effect like predation.
I’m ready to finally make my dream a reality, but I do realize we’re 100% out of our element. I also wonder how we’ll be treated as “outsiders” — I want our family to feel welcomed. We’re looking at Montana because it’s the exact opposite of NY in every way & we want to embrace that! Thoughts? Advice?
Some people will treat you like outsiders since you're from "back east." Some people won't. There is no shortage of transplants especially in some of the prettier places. You're talking about differences, be aware Montana is VERY red for the most part and lots of people love to mention that regularly.
I want to be clear. I'm not telling you not to move to Montana (it's not like it affects me personally anyway). I'm giving you my experience after having grown up there. My suggestion, make a visit in summer and winter and live like a local. Go to restaurants, bars, and the grocery store. Interact with locals as much as you can and see if you still want to make the move.
Moving to Montana by looking at pictures and photos and reading the romanticized version of what this place is, is a mistake.
The "small western charm" isn't in those cities you mention. The charm may have been there 50 years ago, but not now. They are all very expensive places to live compared to whatever salary you will earn UNLESS you have a well-paying job which includes: government job (most of the jobs here were government jobs because not a lot of *entrepreneurs* came to Montana, but that is slowly changing); doctor, lawyer, high tech, real estate agent (most eat their young and would sell their mothers)....... Montana used to be ranked, among the 50 states, 48th in wages. I know 12 of my friends who work at 2-3 different jobs to make ends meet. It might be changing, but not for the average person living here. Yes, there is the Yellowstone Club where billionaires live (Bill Gates, highly-paid athletes, media personalities, etc.) but that isn't a good representation of the average person living here.
This supposed "sprawling ranch" you are talking about would cost you millions of dollars and it's not child's play to own one. It's hard hard grueling work that you must face every single day, sick or not, weather 40 below zero or not, etc. I own a small ranch and it takes up my entire day feeding animals, haying crops, veterinarian bills (high!), machinery to run the place (some tractors cost $250,000+), etc.,etc.. I don't know, if you're an adult, why you would think living on a ranch is easy. You're watching too much television.
Last winter we had, where I live (southwestern part of the state), 10 days of -35 degree weather and it snowed from the end of February to the end of May and some days in June. Summers are short: Winters are long. Depending on where you live, the wind is a major factor of life. The eastern part of this state is on the Great Plains and the wind and weather is extremely harsh.
Outsiders here are treated as outsiders. Most native Montanans have little tolerance for the *baggage* people from other states bring with them. If you bring your baggage here, why not just stay where you are? Slowy, you'll be accepted when folks find they can trust you. There is a lot of isolation here because of the cities and towns being so far apart. Methamphetamine is a huge problem for this state and we rank #1 in that arena.
Interesting you chose cities like Bozeman, Butte, Missoula, Helena. After working in Bozeman for 20+ years, it is not the conservative place it used to be. It is being invaded by Californians, Washingtonians, people from Colorado and they are all screaming liberals. They are erecting neighborhoods at breakneck speed to accommodate the carpetbaggers coming here, ruining the place and leaving, and the houses are cheap and very expensive. It is NOT the ranching community it used to be. Missoula is a far left wing city and Butte is a very rough town. Helena is a city: Not a pretty city but a city nonetheless.
Short answer to your inquiry about wildlife: Wildlife is wonderful but too many people here are ruining the once abundant populations. If you live in a city, you probably will encounter rats and vermin as your wildlife...lol....
Word has gotten out about Montana. It is no longer "The Last Best Place." Instead it has become a haven for the rich with disposable income and real estate prices are out the roof.
Try Arizona. Warmer and no brutal winters.
Last edited by Happy Golucky; 07-06-2019 at 07:46 AM..
For numerous reasons we are uprooting our family from nyc and seeking a fresh start, far away from the city and everything we’ve ever known. I’ve always romanticized Montana. I’ve spent years idly googling pictures of it’s beautiful landscapes, watching youtube videos and becoming enamored with it’s beauty. I don’t know how I can be obsessed with a state I’ve never even visited but everything about it just seems to call to me. The small town western charm, cowboys, all that wide open space. I’ve been drawn to it from the second I knew a place like this existed in the U.S —
Don't do it. Have a job waiting for you or bring one with you. Make a trip = go out in the winter, to see if you even like it.
Quote:
That said our biggest hesitation is the weather and wildlife (bears, snakes) etc. We are from Brooklyn. Needless to say this would be a massive paradigm shift. We don’t hunt, we don’t hike, we don’t camp... yet I can see us settled in a sprawling ranch with miles of space in either direction, hills at the backdrop. Maybe even horse or two. My husband has job opportunities in specific areas, we have to follow the money as his career is very niche and limited (union). Butte, Billings, Bozeman and Missoula are the prospects employment wise. It’s concerning that he earns well over 6 figures but we are not seeing that salary in MT for the same position. I know cost of living is much lower so it’s relative, but it’s a (significant) drop.
There aren't that many people in the state that make six figures. Not the ranchers or tourist operators. Must be someone in the oil patch. By comparison everywhere in America has lower cost of living except the left coast, Alaska and Hawaii - which leaves a lot of states that would meet your expectations.
Quote:
Lastly how bad are the winters exactly? Winters here can get pretty brutal. I don’t mind the snow but the freezing temperatures and wind are really hard to bare. If anyone here has experienced winters in nyc - how does this compare? Also how big of a threat is the wildlife in day to day living? I’m ready to finally make my dream a reality, but I do realize we’re 100% out of our element. I also wonder how we’ll be treated as “outsiders” — I want our family to feel welcomed. We’re looking at Montana because it’s the exact opposite of NY in every way & we want to embrace that! Thoughts? Advice?
Winters east of the Rockies isn't too bad - blowing snow, lotsa ice on the interstates highways and from memory the state doesn't plow on weekends. Drifting snow is the biggest problem - sometimes up to five feet in places. Temps down to -35F
West of the mountains - it's cold and very wet, much like Seattle area. The snow in Kalispell that arrives in November, is still on the ground in May. Missoula has very grey skies. Flathead and Lake counties use a slurry mix of salt and cinders. It really messes up the undercarriage of most vehicles - unless cleaned regularly or undercoated. Temps down to -20F
I discourage people from making bad decisions based on the tv program or google photos. It's not the way it actually is.
Moving to Montana by looking at pictures and photos and reading the romanticized version of what this place is, is a mistake.
The "small western charm" isn't in those cities you mention. The charm may have been there 50 years ago, but not now. They are all very expensive places to live compared to whatever salary you will earn UNLESS you have a well-paying job which includes: government job (most of the jobs here were government jobs because not a lot of *entrepreneurs* came to Montana, but that is slowly changing); doctor, lawyer, high tech, real estate agent (most eat their young and would sell their mothers)....... Montana used to be ranked, among the 50 states, 48th in wages. I know 12 of my friends who work at 2-3 different jobs to make ends meet. It might be changing, but not for the average person living here. Yes, there is the Yellowstone Club where billionaires live (Bill Gates, highly-paid athletes, media personalities, etc.) but that isn't a good representation of the average person living here.
This supposed "sprawling ranch" you are talking about would cost you millions of dollars and it's not child's play to own one. It's hard hard grueling work that you must face every single day, sick or not, weather 40 below zero or not, etc. I own a small ranch and it takes up my entire day feeding animals, haying crops, veterinarian bills (high!), machinery to run the place (some tractors cost $250,000+), etc.,etc.. I don't know, if you're an adult, why you would think living on a ranch is easy. You're watching too much television.
Last winter we had, where I live (southwestern part of the state), 10 days of -35 degree weather and it snowed from the end of February to the end of May and some days in June. Summers are short: Winters are long. Depending on where you live, the wind is a major factor of life. The eastern part of this state is on the Great Plains and the wind and weather is extremely harsh.
Outsiders here are treated as outsiders. Most native Montanans have little tolerance for the *baggage* people from other states bring with them. If you bring your baggage here, why not just stay where you are? Slowy, you'll be accepted when folks find they can trust you. There is a lot of isolation here because of the cities and towns being so far apart. Methamphetamine is a huge problem for this state and we rank #1 in that arena.
Interesting you chose cities like Bozeman, Butte, Missoula, Helena. After working in Bozeman for 20+ years, it is not the conservative place it used to be. It is being invaded by Californians, Washingtonians, people from Colorado and they are all screaming liberals. They are erecting neighborhoods at breakneck speed to accommodate the carpetbaggers coming here, ruining the place and leaving, and the houses are cheap and very expensive. It is NOT the ranching community it used to be. Missoula is a far left wing city and Butte is a very rough town. Helena is a city: Not a pretty city but a city nonetheless.
Short answer to your inquiry about wildlife: Wildlife is wonderful but too many people here are ruining the once abundant populations. If you live in a city, you probably will encounter rats and vermin as your wildlife...lol....
Word has gotten out about Montana. It is no longer "The Last Best Place." Instead it has become a haven for the rich with disposable income and real estate prices are out the roof.
Try Arizona. Warmer and no brutal winters.
This is one of the best descriptions I've seen. Realistic and thorough.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Montana Isn't What You Think It Is
