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That highlighted paragraph you pointed out is true. What I found while living there is an undying devotion to the state. People talk about "quality of life" or staying because "it's Montana " and are willing to earn those low wages. Interestingly many of the ones going on about quality of life are wealthy people or retirees who made their money elsewhere. The ones who stay because "it's Montana" seem to be the ones used to making a low wage since they grew up with it, or are like the many people from coast to coast in every state who are too scared to leave their hometown.
In regards to the original post about Californians, they've been a scapegoat at least as long as my family has lived there and that's nearly 30 years. While I'm not a fan of pretentious wealthy people from any state, I do think new blood is good. It deepens the gene pool and, believe it not, if you listen to someone they may have good ideas.
This is my observation and my $.02 and not based on hard evidence so do with this what you wish.
Along with the influx of money Californians along with other west coast cities like Seattle and Portland are slowly turning the state from red to blue. You have all of these progressives not from Montana moving in to Montana, and they're bringing their socialist values with them. When they get in, Democratic lawmakers start pushing a progressive agenda. This is VERY pronounced in places like Missoula where they keep trying to push their gun control agenda.
Granted everyone moving from California is not liberal and i've met some decent folks but a majority share seem to want to change Montana to the dump they left which angers natives. In 20 years as a business owner i never had to chase money from locals but had 2 California folks checks bounce. 1 made good after about a month. It was a nearly 10K remodel. The second was service work on a garage door for $284 and i never collected.
Back to Bozeman though. I worked in Belgrade for 2 years in the 80's. Most of the people i have kept in contact with over the years , all native Montanans but 1 from Minnesota have moved away due to how the area has changed. It really is unrecognizable anymore. Bozeman's growth is among the fastest in the state. In 1988, the total value of buildings permitted by the city was $8 million. In 1993 it jumped to $40 million. As of Nov 2018 which is the latest data i can find in a quick search, their where $122 million in permits issued Fiscal year to date. These #'s are mind boggling. Real estate is getting so expensive that working class people are being forced out of their homes.
In 1990 the median home price in Bozeman was $65,000. The same home as of March 3rd 2020 was just shy of $490,000 Salaries of Montanan's are among the lowest in the nation. Montana's per capita income in 1990 was $11,200, The current per capita income is $29,428 with a median HOUSEHOLD income of $53,386. The result: Buying real estate is no longer an option for the average Montanan.
It would be interesting to see where people are coming from in this graph today.....
The 4 modest size places folks from Bozeman are going to are all Republican majority voting for President but in 3 cases only by a little like Bozeman. As a result of the only modest edge, local goverment might have some progressive features (and there are arts / progressive businesses). All have lower state income tax. 2 actually have higher property tax rates, 1 about same, 1 lower.
Most of places people are moving from to Bozeman are more liberal and probably higher tax.
I moved to Bozeman twice, 10 years apart, from next-door Idaho. I had a job waiting for me both times (at the same company), and both times, I only worked it for a year or two before the low wages and the cost of living caught up with me and I left.
It wasn't like I was doing all that much better in Idaho; if I had, I would have never moved. Montana's tax structure played a part in the equation to leave and come back to my native state.
Here in Idaho, a set of license plates costs about $38. In Montana, the plates cost me over $300, and that was a big bite. If I had owned a brand-new vehicle, the plates would have cost much more.
Here in Idaho, the taxes nibble at us every day. We have sales tax. In Montana, I paid around the same total amount of state taxes, but they all came in much bigger bites at once. Paying the property tax on my modest home in Belgrade really hurt the second time I lived there.
I didn't want to even buy a house at all. When I returned, I wasn't sure if the job would work out any better the second time than it did the first time, so I really tried to find a rental instead, as I owned a home in Idaho that was fine and I didn't want to sell it.
But when I found the rentals cost just as much as a house payment, or more, if a rental was as nice as my home, I had no choice but to sell my place in Idaho. Buying a house was my best option in a really bad situation.
When I decided to leave, selling the house was a lot more difficult than buying it was. It took a full year to get rid of it, and I sold it at a loss just to get rid of it; I found a much better new home here, and was stuck making 2 house payments for all that time, so I lost even more money leaving than I did moving there.
Not from a shortage of potential buyers either. They were always there, but they all had trouble with financing. Two of those potential buyers lost $1,000 each to me in earnest money when their financing deal fell through. I hated to take their money, but I had to, just to keep the payments current.
Here in Idaho, I soon found a home that was both larger and better suited to my needs than the one I left in Belgrade. The prices on the 2 homes were similar, but my mortgage payment here was much less, as was my home insurance. I think Montana's tax structure needs some major overhaul, but I doubt it will happen.
Montana has a lot of negatives working against it. The climate is harsh, the wages are low, and the negativity toward outside immigration isn't easy to live with for a lot of folks. (I never got the negativity; coming from so close by, the Bozeman folks tended to think of me as a distant relative more than a stranger.)
Time after time, I watched folks move from all over to Bozeman, all for the same thing; the town's beautiful surroundings. They would come, get jobs, stay about 18 months, and then go back to where they came from.
They weren't all from California by a long shot either. I met one guy who moved from Maine, just for the hunting in Montana. Many others came from the midwest and farther east, and I discovered some former neighbors from my home town who had moved to Boze to retire. And, has been mentioned, there were really a lot of folks who were natives who moved to Boze from their tiny little home towns from all over the state.
I also met native Bozeman folks who were trying to leave. Some did when I was there, others left after I did. All for similar reasons.
I have a niece who moved to Bozeman after I left the first time, moved back here leaving her boyfriend behind, and then moved back to marry him. When the marriage failed, she wanted to move back here again, but was stuck and couldn't move. She's still there, and is now planning to move to Arizona with her hew family.
Even so, I still like Montana a lot. I still have many good friends who live there, and they are doing just fine. But I won't ever live there again as my home place.
It's just too tough for me, and I don't think the hostility to outsiders helps the state any. Sure, the property prices are driven up, but more people are spreading the tax burden around to make paying them a little easier.
I moved to Bozeman twice, 10 years apart, from next-door Idaho. I had a job waiting for me both times (at the same company), and both times, I only worked it for a year or two before the low wages and the cost of living caught up with me and I left. It wasn't like I was doing all that much better in Idaho; if I had, I would have never moved. Montana's tax structure played a part in the equation to leave and come back to my native state. Here in Idaho, a set of license plates costs about $38. In Montana, the plates cost me over $300, and that was a big bite. If I had owned a brand-new vehicle, the plates would have cost much more.
DITTO on that experience. Don't even consider WY - those plates are even higher priced.
DITTO on that experience. Don't even consider WY - those plates are even higher priced.
They are also have a worse attitude toward outsiders. I lived there eight years and only am in touch with one native Wyomingite. Everyone else I associated with was a transplant and only one lasted more than three years.
They are also have a worse attitude toward outsiders. I lived there eight years and only am in touch with one native Wyomingite. Everyone else I associated with was a transplant and only one lasted more than three years.
My family homesteaded in southern Wyoming. Most of them moved on after 30 or so years and a few children like myself moved back. We lived in NW Wyo 28 yrs, BUT we were still considered outsiders. Crime has incrementally increased over the last 15 yrs or so. I was shocked by what has happened in Park and Bighorn counties
Montana's tax structure played a part in the equation to leave and come back to my native state.
Here in Idaho, a set of license plates costs about $38. In Montana, the plates cost me over $300, and that was a big bite. If I had owned a brand-new vehicle, the plates would have cost much more.
Here in Idaho, the taxes nibble at us every day. We have sales tax. In Montana, I paid around the same total amount of state taxes, but they all came in much bigger bites at once. Paying the property tax on my modest home in Belgrade really hurt the second time I lived there.
1. Montana's tax structure is really, really dumb. The average nationwide income tax is 4.72%. To a Californian who is used to 8% and above, a top out of 6.9% seems really low, until you learn everything above $18K is taxed at 6.9% in Montana. All pension and retirement income received while living in Montana is taxed, to the extent that it is part of the federal adjusted gross income. Social Security income is also taxed.
2. Property tax is where Montana makes up the revenue from the lack of sales tax. All real estate and personal property, such as an automobile, is subject to a property tax. The median property tax in Montana is $1,465 a year on a $176,300 home. Our property tax in California is $3300 on a, roughly, $400K home. But the tax is based on the assessed land value, not the house value.
3. I've heard people say, "well at least Montana doesn't have a sales tax." To a Californian that sounds amazing. My sales tax can be from 7.75 to 10%. But in Montana there are 4% resort taxes. It's not on all goods but it is another tax, none the less.
4. One thing Montana does have going for it is low vehicle registration costs. We have 4 cars in our family. Three of those four are 10 years old, or older. I can register those three vehicles in Montana for life for less than $200, total. Every year in California those three vehicles cost me roughly $600 to register... every.dang.year.
5. So, compared to California Montana does have some good things going for it. Lower income tax, low gas tax, low property tax, low or no sales tax, low vehicle registration fees, and lower energy costs. Again, lower compared to California. But, Montana's wages are crap. So while all of these aforementioned taxes and fees are relatively low, they're not low enough for the crap wages in Montana.
My family homesteaded in southern Wyoming. Most of them moved on after 30 or so years and a few children like myself moved back. We lived in NW Wyo 28 yrs, BUT we were still considered outsiders. Crime has incrementally increased over the last 15 yrs or so. I was shocked by what has happened in Park and Bighorn counties
We were in Cody, Wyoming last summer checking out the town and homes. My wife also met with a hospital manager to talk about a potential job transfer. I was shocked, SHOCKED, at the cost of homes in Cody. Even a well paying job at the hospital doesn't allow you to buy a home at those current prices. So, those home prices, combined with a 40% pay reduction will prevent us from moving there.
We were in Cody, Wyoming last summer checking out the town and homes. My wife also met with a hospital manager to talk about a potential job transfer. I was shocked, SHOCKED, at the cost of homes in Cody. Even a well paying job at the hospital doesn't allow you to buy a home at those current prices. So, those home prices, combined with a 40% pay reduction will prevent us from moving there.
Homes that were on the market in 2010 are still on the market now. Every summer, just about every home there goes up for sale. You'd think you were buying rich, loamy midwestern farm land for $10k/ac, when it's just scrub land with beer can to knee high weeds and sagebrush. Plenty of tumbleweeds. That land is worthless unless you spend $$$ to irrigate it - for sugar beets or alfalfa.
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