Snakes in Montana (Missoula, Bozeman: insurance, houses, moving)

[happiness is]

Colmey veterinary is in Livingston, which is not in the Gallatin valley. It is over the pass east of Bozeman in a habitat for rattlers. People I know in Livingston don't even poke their hands down in the dark in their garage because of snakes. The dog's owner in that article is from Livingston, and there are lots of rattlesnakes around Livingston. Bozeman, the town itself, is not where you find rattlers, but at lower elevations, hotter, dryer and rockier out in the Gallatin valley, there are rattlers.

I'm not surprised at all about the number of dogs Colmey treats for snake bite. Too many people hike with their pet dogs off a leash. I always leashed my dogs when I hiked with them. It is safer for them and more considerate for other hikers on the same trail.

Reziac has it right about following those guidelines when walking in the wild.

[Montana Griz]

Originally Posted by happiness is

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I'm not surprised at all about the number of dogs Colmey treats for snake bite. Too many people hike with their pet dogs off a leash. I always leashed my dogs when I hiked with them. It is safer for them and more considerate for other hikers on the same trail.

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I agree with having dog(s) on leash when hiking on trails for obvious reasons...

However many of us go "hiking all over the country-side" in our beautiful state accompanied by our wonderful "Bird Dogs" in persuit of Huns, Sharpies, pheasants, Doves etc. Upland Bird Hunting behind a well trained Pointer and/or Retriever is a "joy-to-behold". Unfortunately, some of our early season bird hunting is in areas that contain rattlers and a free-ranging Bird Dog can encounter a rattler on occassion if several conditions happen to occur.
My Brittanies have been "Snake-Broke" and they receive their annual Booster Shot of Snake Vaccine. However, you still do "a lotta praying" when you're out there 'with-your-best-buddy'.

(NOTE A little known fact.............A "wet-bite"** from an immature rattler can be far more dangerous than a bite from a fully adult snake. The Adult snake has the capability of controlling the amount of venom it will release when it bites. (the more angry the snake.....the more likely it'll release a full-dose). A young immature snake does not have that capability (yet) and will almost always release a full-dose--------angry or not!.

** ..approx 25% of all rattler bites are (dry-bites)---no venom released.

[happiness is]

Yes, that's why I said "PET DOGS". Working dogs, whether hunting or herding or otherwise of course, are not going to be leashed when they are out and about doing their jobs.

[Geo Roam]

Originally Posted by Montana Griz

.

I agree with having dog(s) on leash when hiking on trails for obvious reasons...

However many of us go "hiking all over the country-side" in our beautiful state accompanied by our wonderful "Bird Dogs" in persuit of Huns, Sharpies, pheasants, Doves etc. Upland Bird Hunting behind a well trained Pointer and/or Retriever is a "joy-to-behold". Unfortunately, some of our early season bird hunting is in areas that contain rattlers and a free-ranging Bird Dog can encounter a rattler on occassion if several conditions happen to occur.
My Brittanies have been "Snake-Broke" and they receive their annual Booster Shot of Snake Vaccine. However, you still do "a lotta praying" when you're out there 'with-your-best-buddy'.

(NOTE A little known fact.............A "wet-bite"** from an immature rattler can be far more dangerous than a bite from a fully adult snake. The Adult snake has the capability of controlling the amount of venom it will release when it bites. (the more angry the snake.....the more likely it'll release a full-dose). A young immature snake does not have that capability (yet) and will almost always release a full-dose--------angry or not!.

** ..approx 25% of all rattler bites are (dry-bites)---no venom released.

Thanks Griz. Our dog is more often than not,
off-leash". This is not a courtesy issue or an issue of respect for others, but only off-leash when we are in remote areas. Off leash on a bike path is not very wise for the dog or others.

Bird hunting and hiking were my concerns. Neither are conducive for a leash.

You mentioned "booster" shot of vaccine. Is this something you get annually at the vet visit like heartworm etc? Or is it a seasonal dose only when needed? Can you keep a dose on hand and administer when needed when too far from a vet? Especially a couple hours away from a vet?

So I guess that was three questions for the price of one.

Thanks.

[Montana Griz]

Originally Posted by Geo Roam

You mentioned "booster" shot of vaccine. Is this something you get annually at the vet visit like heartworm etc? Or is it a seasonal dose only when needed? Can you keep a dose on hand and administer when needed when too far from a vet? Especially a couple hours away from a vet?

So I guess that was three questions for the price of one.

Thanks.

More than glad to pass on to you my (non-professional) knowledge re Snake Vaccine and it's administration.

The initial inoculation in composed of two shots (1 cc each) given about 30 days apart. (it is given subcutaneaously -sp?-).

Then an annual "Booster" shot is given about 30 days prior to the dog being exposed to possible exposure to a rattle snake. (I have mine given about 30 days prior (usually about 8/1) to the Upland Bird Season opening in Montana). It's maximum effectiveness is about 6 months----you can then give them a 2nd Booster about early Feb if conditions warrant.

It is my understanding that the benefits of the Vaccine are:

#1/ It gives you about 8 more hours to get your dog to a Vet, if struck.

#2/ It significantly lessens the negative effect of the snake bite...i.e. lessens the likelyhood of death; lessens the intenseity of the pain level, and lessens the amount of tissue damage in the area of the bite.

FYI. Here are some other misc facts:

a/ in snake country, dogs are approx 20 times more likely to be bitten than humans.

b/ if receiving a "wet' bite, dogs are about 25 times more likely to die from the bite than humans.

c/ In the U.S. approx 150,000 dogs are bitten annually.

d/ dogs (and cats) are approx 300 times more likely to be bitten by a rattler than they are likely to contract Rabies.


Edit:.........Yes you can carry a booster injection with you when out in the field.....I know a couple of hunters that do this......particularly if it's been 4 to 5 months or so since the dog has received a shot of the vaccine.

[happiness is]

In case you have not looked it up yet, here is the map (scroll down) of relative density by observation in Montana, from the Montana state government web site.
Prairie Rattlesnake - Montana Field Guide

[Mt-7]

Oh lord...

[Geo Roam]

Thanks Griz and thank you for the link HI.

The info on the vaccination will be put to good use. While spending some time at a working ranch in Wyoming, a friend asked a ranch hand about rattlers and the concerns for the ranch dogs. He stated that one of the dogs has recently been bitten on the nose (tourniquet not an option) and he was carrying a shot for the dog that allowed it time to get to the vet. It saved the dogs life and it ended up with zero long term effects. I wasn't able to get the details of the vaccine nor the ability for a non-vet to carry or administer it and haven't found good info on internet searches.

Your info puts it into a little better perspective and I will pursue some options with the vets over the next couple months. Knowing the level of "search" a dog conducts while bird hunting, it seems painfully obvious that they will turn up a snake (or several) during those activities.

Thanks!

[Montana Griz]

Originally Posted by Geo Roam

Thanks Griz and thank you for the link HI.

The info on the vaccination will be put to good use. While spending some time at a working ranch in Wyoming, a friend asked a ranch hand about rattlers and the concerns for the ranch dogs. He stated that one of the dogs has recently been bitten on the nose (tourniquet not an option) and he was carrying a shot for the dog that allowed it time to get to the vet. It saved the dogs life and it ended up with zero long term effects. I wasn't able to get the details of the vaccine nor the ability for a non-vet to carry or administer it and haven't found good info on internet searches.

Your info puts it into a little better perspective and I will pursue some options with the vets over the next couple months. Knowing the level of "search" a dog conducts while bird hunting, it seems painfully obvious that they will turn up a snake (or several) during those activities.

Thanks!

I just found the receipt in my glove compartment.........Red Rock Biologics is the name of the company that developed and manufactures the Canine Snake Vaccine. Their web site is very informative..............................

[rainroosty]

Originally Posted by JimBaker488

The record length is 101 inches (2.6 m), making it (officially) the longest snake in North America.
Elaphe obsoleta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Looks like you've got the North American record beat atleast by a full meter there Dusty. And that's for any snake species found on the continent !

Correct, Jim! Also, "Black Snakes" are not "members of the King Snake variety", and, they never eat venomous snakes.
Just trying to keep the facts straight!