Is Montana still a good place for a libertarian couple looking to relocate? (Missoula: flat fee, prices)

[Reziac]

Now that's some durn good info. Sure glad we had this discussion!!

[ElkHunter]

I'm like him, "Luggage law?" A purse is wearing apparel, not storage for travel.

As to concealed carry in a restaurant that serves liquor. Doesn't the law say that you cannot carry in an establishment that their primary income is derived from serving / dispensing alcohol?

I know in Wyoming, we can carry into a restaurant as long as their primary income is from the food. Now if it's a bar, that just happens to serve food, you can't carry concealed.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by ElkHunter

I'm like him, "Luggage law?" A purse is wearing apparel, not storage for travel.

I gather you've not hefted many women's purses... I don't know how you'd tell there wasn't a full-sized cannon in there!!

But I'd think that anything not clothing but routinely carried (everywhere you go, not just for travel) would be similar -- wallet, purse, backpack, fanny pack.

Who was the western hero, or villain (I forget which!) who carried a gun in the top of his cowboy hat? other than James West, of course.

[mica]

The restriction on places that serve alcohol:
45-8-328
"(c) a room in which alcoholic beverages are sold, dispensed, and consumed under a license issued under Title 16 for the sale of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises."

I suggest never asking the government about gun laws. They will almost always spin it to try and sound more restrictive than it is. Give their personal opinions etc, unless you are trying to get an official AG opinion, which may not be a bad idea regarding the off body carry.

Gary Marbut is the foremost authority on Montana gun laws. I have the utmost confidence in his interpretation.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by mica

The restriction on places that serve alcohol:
45-8-328
"(c) a room in which alcoholic beverages are sold, dispensed, and consumed under a license issued under Title 16 for the sale of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises."

A lot of restaurants have the bar in a separate room purely because of laws like this. Serving alcohol is apparently not the same as having a room for the purpose of serving alcohol.

If you want to see how badly the whole regulation thing can get out of hand, read some of the materials here: DNA Lounge: Permits and Lawyers specifically DNA Lounge: Nightclub Permits
regarding how much red tape is required to open and operate a nightclub in San Francisco.

(BTW, Jamie is one of the primary programmers behind the original Netscape.)

[mica]

In my state, Virginia, there are NO bars. All establishment's licensed to sell alcohol for on premise consumption are restaurants. A lot of restaurants have a small 'bar' type area but no bars or nightclubs how one would normally think of. No conceal carry even if you aren't drinking. However, we can Open carry in places that serve alcohol.

50K in SF, yikes...... I think I read something in the Montana Code a couple years ago that had a restriction on the number of licenses according to the population/a given amount in a given area also.

[mica]

So I was doing a little research. Montana does have a limit on liquor licenses and the cost for one in the private market puts San Fran to shame! In Kalispell, they have gone for as much as $950,000. < Not a typo. Unbelievable.

The Strange World of Montana Alcohol Law | Daniel Testa | Missoula | New West Missoula

[Gman2007]

Must be some GOOD money to be made once you acquire one of the liquor licenses!

[Gman2007]

Originally Posted by ElkHunter

I'm like him, "Luggage law?" A purse is wearing apparel, not storage for travel.

As to concealed carry in a restaurant that serves liquor. Doesn't the law say that you cannot carry in an establishment that their primary income is derived from serving / dispensing alcohol?

I know in Wyoming, we can carry into a restaurant as long as their primary income is from the food. Now if it's a bar, that just happens to serve food, you can't carry concealed.

A few of the county attorneys according to an article from 2008 have given an opinion about the "luggage law":

.::The Montana Standard::. (http://www.mtstandard.com/articles/2008/02/04/state/hjjbjhjfjjeggf.txt - broken link)

The issue is yet unresolved, but three county attorneys in the state have weighed in on the debate. The county attorneys of Yellowstone, Missoula and Lewis and Clark counties have said that purses are luggage, not apparel, and guns in purses are therefore legal without a permit.



In regards to carrying while in an establishment that serves alcohol, I think the debate is about the law only saying concealed carry is illegal but not open carry - unless of course the owner of the establishment wishes for no firearms at all.

[mica]

One of those attorneys is now the State AG! That certainly gives it a stronger, if someone was to be jacked up for it. If MSSA can get him to give a formal opinion letter as AG that would help.

According to the article on liquor licenses. Only the big chains can afford them and the little guys are being forced out of business because they can't offer a beer or glass of wine with your dinner.