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I just came back from short vacation in Montreal with my family. I have been to Montreal many times, and have always enjoyed visiting the city. Certainly, the French culture and language give the city certain charm. However, seems that they do not have much regard for the millions of tourists and business travelers since even the critical road and parking signs are all in French. For example, when we were driving into Montreal, the major highway we were driving on was undergoing construction and where were many signs with warnings/clarifications/etc. all in French only.
I know that there's a law in Quebec called Loi 101 (Bill 101) that stipulates that French is the only official language in the province. But it also allows signs in the other languages as long as they are less prominent than those in French. In other words, it would be absolutely legal and appropriate to add some statements in English in small letters underneath the French ones on all or at least the most critical road/traffic signs and warnings in the city. If they want to attract more tourists and business travelers from the US and the other Canadian provinces, why not duplicate warnings and parking rules in English on the road signs, especially if it makes the city saver, improves the level of satisfaction among travelers and does not really impact the cultural significance of French?
By the way, as you cross the border in the US, in the northern part of the New York state close to the Quebec border, many road signs are in both French and English. I wanted to write a letter to the Quebec Department of Transportation but I figure that they have heard that complaint many times before...
Except for street names (Rue Whatever, Boulevard Whatever) and cardinal direction points (Est, Ouest, Nord, Sud), highway signs in Quebec all use pictograms rather than words anyway.
As for parking signs, the meters in Montreal I saw a few weeks ago have English on them, as do the tickets if you get one!
Since you are from New York, there are tens of thousands of Chinese and Koreans in NYC, and many Chinese and Koreans visit it too, do you see any Chinese and Koreans signs in midtown Mahattan? Do you think that's unfair and wrong as well?
The Chinese and Koreans didn't expect Chinese and Korean signs for their convenience and they somehow manage to learn at least basic English; on the other hand, English speakers whine about the lack of English service outside English-speaking world all the time, which really sickens me.
Sorry, no non-English country or province should be expected to erect signs in English just because the Americans may be interested in visiting. Why should the world be made just to make English speakers' life easier instead of others'?
Since you are from New York, there are tens of thousands of Chinese and Koreans in NYC, and many Chinese and Koreans visit it too, do you see any Chinese and Koreans signs in midtown Mahattan? Do you think that's unfair and wrong as well?
Bad example and bad argument. Here is why:
1) In fact, in many neighborhoods, especially with the large Chinese population - including Chinatown - there are many signs in Chinese and Mandarin. The city and government forms are usually available in several languages, including English, Spanish, Chinese and Russian. In the subway, many brochures and signs are indeed in English, Spanish and Chinese. Even on the site of the agency that runs the subway and commuter trains you can select the language: mta.info | Schedules, Fares & Tolls
2) Montreal is located in Canada, which is a bilingual country. Is it not? Should we simply forget about that rather obvious fact? There are many people living in Montreal (a minority, but a large one) that speak English and for whom English is the first language. Because of Montreal's closeness to the US border and its reliance on tourism from the US and Ontario, and the fact that so many tourists arrive in Montreal by car, you cannot seriously compare the need to some clarifications on the traffic signs in English, with the need to do the same in New York for the Chinese tourists. This is a nonsensical argument. As I said, in upper New York state many major traffic signs are in both English and French. Drive down the New York State Thruway and you will see that every exit close to the Canadian border is marked with both English and French. I think some people in Quebec are so obsessed with "preserving the culture" that they are willing to present the virtual middle finger to anyone who does not speak the language.
. I think some people in Quebec are so obsessed with "preserving the culture" that they are willing to present the virtual middle finger to anyone who does not speak the language.
The use or lack thereof of the English Language here in Quebec is a sensitive and complex issue and as the actual English population make up only 8% of Quebecs population its easy to see where its use for common sense road signs gets swept under the carpet,granted a lot of the signage is in pictograms but various temporary signs for road closures and certain conditions leave a visitor scratching his head, risque de brouillard comes to mind, and good luck with the parking signs = http://perlypalms.com/montreal/large/parking-signs.jpg. your best bet is to just come on up and have a good time and dont worry that Quebecs English signage isnt up to what you think it should be. its all part of Quebecs Ambiance .
I hear what your saying, but the reality is that Quebec is like its own country inside of an English speaking country. If only Quebec were an independent country, people would know it's not "bilingual" and attempt to learn some basic French before coming. The Quebecois aren't really accommodated outside of Quebec either, with the notable exception of the Ontario border around Ottawa and New Brunswick where many Francophones live. The whole bilingualism thing is more on paper than anything. Most Quebecois are bilinguual, but most English Canadians know about as much French as an American guy in Pennsylvania will know Spanish; a few words or basic sentences picked up from school/Tv/Music etc. Try to learn some basic French.
The French words used for traffic are quite simple for an English speaker:
Est= East
Ouest = West
Arret = Stop (where the word "Arrest" comes from)
Avertissment = Warning/Caution
Route = Route
Rue = Road
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoNYC
I think some people in Quebec are so obsessed with "preserving the culture" that they are willing to present the virtual middle finger to anyone who does not speak the language.
You have to understand that it hasn't been the choice or will of a huge proportion of Quebecois to be part of the country we call Canada and they feel they have been played time and time again by the British/English Canadians. They were the original "Canadiens" before anyone in Canada was speaking English, they were conquered in a war in which they themselves fought the British, they didn't vote to join Canada, they weren't peacefully bought by the British Empire. To some Quebecois, Canada = the newest manifestation of the British Empire in North America. Furthermore, the French-speakers, the Quebecois, were mostly limited to living in Quebec (if they wanted to retain their language, culture, heritage etc.) and it is has been understood by both parties that Quebec is the "French" province since 1763. Many of them simply want independence but the route of achieving it peacefully seems to have been conveniently blocked off by the federal government (which mayor may not be true) and that the best they can do is to make their country as close to an independent Quebec would be, without the independence.
2) Montreal is located in Canada, which is a bilingual country. Is it not? Should we simply forget about that rather obvious fact? There are many people living in Montreal (a minority, but a large one) that speak English and for whom English is the first language. Because of Montreal's closeness to the US border and its reliance on tourism from the US and Ontario, and the fact that so many tourists arrive in Montreal by car, you cannot seriously compare the need to some clarifications on the traffic signs in English, with the need to do the same in New York for the Chinese tourists. This is a nonsensical argument. As I said, in upper New York state many major traffic signs are in both English and French. Drive down the New York State Thruway and you will see that every exit close to the Canadian border is marked with both English and French. I think some people in Quebec are so obsessed with "preserving the culture" that they are willing to present the virtual middle finger to anyone who does not speak the language.
Quebec is French and only French. That's the obvious fact you forget. The fact that the rest of Canada and the US speak English does NOT matter. The fact that many New Yorkers and Ontarians visit Quebec doesn't matter. France is visited by Spanish, Germans and Italians everyday too, do all the road signs and parkings show Spanish, German and Italians too? They don't.
In Montreal, there are enough English services and signs, probably more than the English population deserve.
Reagarding your comment about Chinese language service in New York, I have never seen a single parking spot sign in Chinese, or any road signs in Chinese outside tiny Chinatown.
The entire non-English world is doing a LOT to cater to English speakers' need. In Shanghai's subways, in Soeul's restaurants, in Paris' museums. and you guys are still complaining.
It is not about "stubbornly preserve" their culture. Other countries simply doesn't need to put English signs and provide English service AT ALL. Do you even realize how much easier it is just to happen to be an English native speaker already compared with others??? Have you seen Koreans, Chinese, or people from whatever country struggle to learn and communicate in English in the US and Canada, while you people go around seeing English everywhere in most of the developed and emerging countries, taking it for granted, not even appreciating the efforts others have made, and keep whining about the lack of English signs. It is ridiculous. The world doesn't circle around English-speakers and shouldn't. In your mind, Americans never need to pick up a foreign language because the world should learn and use English and they fail to make them understood, it is their fault !
An American custom feels so natural to step into a restaurant in Nice, or Tokyo and start with a "hello", or more politely, ask "do you speak English?" How many Frenchmen and Japanese did you see walk into a New York restaurant and start the conversation with "Bonjour" or "Konichiwa"? They will be considered stupid even to ask "do you speak French/Japanese?"
Seriously, it is time to stop complaining. If you ever go to another country, either use a guide, or learn that language!!
Quebec is not biligual. Canada is bilingual. Quebec's provincial government's stance is that services in English are a luxury and not to be taken for granted as Quebec's govt makes it quite clear that they would eventually prefer to eliminate these services and function as a unilingual French society.
Canada is officially bilingual at the federal level - The feds do not run the city services or highway signage, the province does and the province is French-only.
Quebec's provincial government's stance is that services in English are a luxury and not to be taken for granted as Quebec's govt makes it quite clear that they would eventually prefer to eliminate these services and function as a unilingual French society.
Not a francophone but I would want that day to come. I was actually disappointed when Montrealers didn't even want to speak French with me. I wanted to practice, but as soon as they realize I don't speak French fluently, they switched to English.
To see Montreal to be increasing English speaking is just a shame!! The French language is a treasure and should be preserved to the maximum extent, even at some economic cost. We all talk about "bilingual", but the fact is, surrounded by anglophones, if Quebec adopts a bilingual policy, English will eventually dominate and French will absolutely decline or even die. Therefore, gradually getting rid of English should be the right path. The optimal scenario should be, when someone from Toronto or New York want to visit Montreal or Quebec, they know they have to learn some basic French otherwise they won't be able to ask for directions or order food, just like they do if they want to visit some remote village in France. Right now it is like everyone in Montreal speak some English, and tourists don't even bother to say bonjour/merci.
Every country should do something to curb the increasing influence of English in every corner of the world. Sadly most are doing the contrary.
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