Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Presumably this goes to the megatrend noted in other thread(s) about a decline in the motorcycle industry in-general.
In a few months, I will pop into the Ducati dealer in Redmond, WA and sleuth out how they are doing. They planted themselves with good walkable exposure to several things: 1) a mall that is actually doing so-so (outdoor mall), I can never figure out if this mall is successful or struggling, but it is definitely a center piece of the town 2) adjacent to an Exotics (foreign and domestic) show every Saturday, whereby software people with more money than sense show off interesting cars. Same crowd who buy Ducati motorcycles.
An interesting BMW-like dealer (couple brands) then opened up next door. I suspect both are doing alright, but one does have to wonder: how is the target demographic changing?
The local H-D is in a decent spot, too. I like their showroom and presentation, in Bellevue WA.
That data is out there, the McKinseys of the world collect it and do the analysis. Nail your typical H-D buyer, with maybe ten relational data points about him or (more rarely) her. Then consider outside, economic forces. Compare/contrast typical BMW, JPN, Italian, H-D (and other American) buyers.
So...what is changing over time? Demand must be down, since capacity is being eliminated (a major, major step for a heavy industry given the cost of shutting down).
If H-D has an "all-electric" bike within 18 months, what is the point? I'll buy a Frank's House of Motorcycles "all-electric" in 18 months; H-D has just completely lost their luster if that comes to pass as a major showpiece. Like Ferrari, I always felt that H-D built engines first, then ...oh yeah, we'd best put a chassis around this.
Where is this going, the megatrend with H-D. I'm not bashing H-D at all, though they are not my cup of tea. I'd love to see the upstart Indian succeed, though will take a decade to tell at-least (Polaris' Victory failed after more time than that).
If, long-term, motorcycles are a dead-letter except for the rare and exotic person (not unlike paragliders, auto-gyros, other dangerous and near-uninsurable hobbies), is that truly the way of it? I hardly ride anymore, now at 50, and I do not know my future in the sport at this point...
It's only 1 plant and I dont see HD filing bankruptcy or anything like that. They're heavy, under powered and unreliable but they still sell plenty of em'. They have a niche market and a rather large following so I think HD will be around for decades to come.
The same thing could be said about the Duc. A ZX10R is more reliable, has more power and is thousands cheaper then a Panigale but Ducati has a very very loyal following and will continue to sell bikes.
HD had to rely on Warren Buffet for a 303mm dollar loan for their financial arm since no bank would finance their bikes. The bad part, Warren commanded a high 15% interest rate so HD really made zero on the loans given to customers to buy the bikes!
And yet, Indian continues to see rapid growth and has taken over 10% of the over 600cc market dominated by Harley. Overall American-made motorcycle sales are about equalized between Harley's loss and Indian's growth. I'd have to dig deeper to see total numbers.
And yet, Indian continues to see rapid growth and has taken over 10% of the over 600cc market dominated by Harley. Overall American-made motorcycle sales are about equalized between Harley's loss and Indian's growth. I'd have to dig deeper to see total numbers.
That would be nice (numbers). I don't "like" H-D, always being a sport and adventure rider (or both, in the case of my Multistrada and now various BMW and other competitors). But I don't dislike them either all that much; I merely wish the market was such that they *chose to* live in the 21st Century in terms of tech.
If Indian must rise and H-D must fall, so be it. We shall see where the market goes based on (various factors).
I’m rooting for H-D but in my opinion they have fallen flat lately. I’ll give a few examples:
Street 500/750 - when this bike was released it was marred with issues like cheap-looking exposed wiring and shoddy brakes. I think they improved on some of those things in later releases but the model already has a poor reputation so the damage was essentially done.
Street Rod - I was excited when I saw the press release of this bike and for a second thought it could warrant a purchase, but again they dropped the ball by totally screwing up the ergos...causing hip issues, etc. Most riders above 5’10” have essentially deemed it unrideable.
Roadster - from my understanding this bike has fared better than the above two, but could have been better. The two big negatives in my opinion are the placement of the foot pegs which will ding up your shins to oblivion and the bloated price.
If I were to buy a Harley I’d get an Iron 883....but in all honesty I’m still waiting for them to get their act together and make a bike that I REALLY want. Until then I will keep riding my BMW.
Last edited by Cruz Azul Guy; 02-13-2018 at 04:46 PM..
Harley needs to simplify its line up and lower prices to be competitive.
They only need a few bikes. A lot of their bike models are redundant.
Also the 2018 color line up is hideous. Banana yellow? Offer good colors and stop making bikes with custom graphic schemes no one likes. Flat Black, Black, White, Blue or Red. Once you customize a bike too much it only appeals to you. I don't know how many Harleys I see out there for sale that are just hideous. An other wise nice bike but covered in idiotic flames or skulls or pin ups. I don't want that. Make it one color.
Street:
Get rid of the street 500. The 750 is a good entry level bike. Make ABS standard. Hell the even rebel has an ABS option.
Sportster:
Get rid of the 883 and only have the "Sportster" with the 1200 engine. Then only have the Superlow, 1200 Iron (but the one that looks like the 883, not the actual ugly 1200 IRON) And then the 1200 Custom. that's it. Offer better paint schemes.
Softtail:
Street Bob, Low rider. FatBoy and Breakout. That is it. No old looking Delux or Heritage.
Touring:
Road King, Road Glide, Street Glide, Ultra Limited.
Get rid of the CVOs because they don't offer any value. 25k for a Street Glide, 40k for a CVO Street Glide. 15k premium for a slightly larger engine and an ugly paint job.
Trikes: keep them both but lower the cost. Softails cost 15k so the trike kit is a 10k premium? That's dumb.
They should turn a road glide into a trike, and put a 5k premium max on it.
There is a glut of used bikes barely used, these new bike prices are insane.
Also, step out of the box Harley. The average person couldn't tell a difference between a 2002 and 2018 So why buy new. Auto makers update and face lift every 3-5 years to keep consumers buying the newest model. Harley has not done this. I know Harleys and without thorough examination have no idea what year a Harley is. The only real give away is whether it has a petcock or not.
For the record I am a 1200 Sporty owner. I really don't see the attraction to Indians, they look even more outdated other than the scout. I think this is less about Indians being desirable and more about something new and American made has come on the scene and so everyone wants to try it for something different or unique. Also, many people are tired of Harleys antics and gimicks. They have bad dealerships, bad service departments, expensive parts, expensive everything, sales people have bad attitudes, and people have taken the abuse because Harley is THE motorcycle. They have gotten by on their iconic status for so long... Now, they are in a competitive global market with a generation that does not give one wet fart about Shovelheads or Willie G and most think Harely riders are a joke.
I rode the scout 60 it was Meh. Indians growth will slow very soon. When something new it gets momentum, Once its old that momentum stops. Motorcycle sales will be forever decreasing in the US from here on out.
Harley is onto something with this Iron 1200. I’m looking forward to seeing the reviews.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
