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Old 05-08-2008, 03:42 PM
 
14,993 posts, read 23,896,013 times
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All this talk about Chris McCanless being mentally sick (and their are good arguments to support this)...
You want to see a documentary about another nut that lost his life in Alaska check out "Grizzly Man" about Timothy Treadwell. This guy claimed to have some spiritual connection with bears, so would often travel to Alaska to live with them in the wild. Not treating them as wild dangerous animals, but as some equal fellow citizen of planet earth or something. This guy was seriously fruit loops, as indicated by several recorded weird outbursts, etc. Of course, he ended up being killed and devoured by a bear. Unlike Chris who only killed himself, he took someone else with him (his girlfriend was also killed) and his actions, ironically, resulted in the later death of the bear and her cub. His death was recorded on audiotape, which was so gruesome they would not play it back on the documentary.

Yeah, you guessed it, this guy is also a romanticized "hero" in some circles.


Edit - Yikes, I just learned Leanardo DeCaprio is going to make a movie about the above nutcase Treadwell. Expect the movie to skip the fact that his actions and death (which I can care less about) resulted in the death of two magnificent bears and an innocent participant (which I do care about), expect the movie to not recreate his outbursts and odd behavior that were witnessed by those around him. Expect another series of clueless posts on this on "he lived the way he wanted and I idolize him".

Last edited by Dd714; 05-08-2008 at 03:58 PM..
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Old 05-08-2008, 05:04 PM
 
Location: SoFlo to SoCal (Hacienda Heights)
1,510 posts, read 5,067,803 times
Reputation: 671
I dont want to use the phrase nutcase.. but I do agree that Treadwell wasnt all there. I saw the documentary when it first aired on Animal Planet or whatever it was. Very disturbing. His outbursts were pretty psychotic. I didnt know there was going to be an actual scripted movie about him now too though. Hmm...
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Old 05-08-2008, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Juneau, AK
2,628 posts, read 6,888,810 times
Reputation: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Think (Freedom) View Post
I dont want to use the phrase nutcase.. but I do agree that Treadwell wasnt all there. I saw the documentary when it first aired on Animal Planet or whatever it was. Very disturbing. His outbursts were pretty psychotic. I didnt know there was going to be an actual scripted movie about him now too though. Hmm...
No, he was a complete nutcase. The man was off his rocker. A few sandwiches short of a picnic. The lights were on but no one was home. You get my point.
McCandless, on the other hand, suffered an increasingly common disease in the American population... idiocy. Sadly, there's no cure.
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Old 05-08-2008, 05:33 PM
 
Location: in the southwest
13,395 posts, read 45,027,833 times
Reputation: 13599
McCandless was a 20-something kid. Sure he might have been mentally sick in his last weeks, but not going into his adventure.
I don't think he really had much of anything in common with Treadwell at all.
McCandless is an easy target and it might feel satisfying to point derisively at him while patting one's self on the back, but I am just going to repeat what I already said:
f he had been rescued, Chris' story might have had a very different ending; he would have learned something about himself but gone on to lead a fulfilling life.
As it was, I think he did learn something; it is tragic (especially for his family) that he died.
Like so many of us, Chris felt the urge, went to the edge, and he was one of the ones who didn't come back.
Thing is, a lot of complacent people out there are alive--but not living.
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Old 05-11-2008, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
28,896 posts, read 30,274,521 times
Reputation: 19112
Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
This is exactly the kind of thinking that saddens me about the world.

Everyone seems to think that if someone wants to break the norm and live without boundries that they have psychological problems.

I think if anyone has psychological problems it is us who choose to sit in an office day in and day out and waste our lives away choosing not to go out and do the things we truly desire to do. Chris seemed to be more sane than 99% of the world. He lived life exactly how he wanted to.

yes, and this is what I've been trying to reinterate...human behavior is based on society's approval....and the approval of our parents, friends. If we go against what our parents and friends want for us, then, we're considered outcasts, or even worse, nuts.

What in the world is wrong with a child going off to seek his/her own happiness. If Chris would have remained in his hometown, he could have been killed in an accident. Death is part of life, and unfortunately, for most of us, we don't really live life, we live a life of expectations of how others feel we should live, b/c we fear going off the beaten path.

Chris died an untimely death...but so have a lot of other children, from cancer, drunk driving, innocent drive by shootings, etc. No one knows what the next minute will bring...therefore, I say, live life to the fullest, seeking not the approval of others to be happy, but more so, who is in our hearts to be.

It is more insane to me, the oddasity of society and parents who think, because someone ventures outside the curves of what you think life should be, then right away we judge...or maybe, just maybe, subconsciousely we ourselves are a bit envious because we didn't have the heart to go off on our own.

Society and our parents say, go to school, get a degree, get married, have children, and live like everyone else...in debt over material things....

I say, freedom lies beyond anything material....

freedom is our own happiness...not someone elses

we do not own our children....and yes, they could die, but rather they die doing what they wanted to do, and not my idea of what they should do.

People die, kids die....untimely and unfortunate deaths...but, the bigger picture is...did they live they're lives as the gift it is...did they succeed in realizing there is much more to life then material success...or society's idea of what happiness should be.

Chris was happy...dieing is not easy to grasp....not for anyone...but Chris's death, was a good death...meaning, he succeeded in doing what he wanted to do...and he did much more then most of us who live full lives...and die at the age of 90 forgetting how to dream.
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Old 05-12-2008, 02:56 PM
 
14,993 posts, read 23,896,013 times
Reputation: 26523
Hey save that post above for the Timothy Treadwell movie, just change "Chris" to "Timothy".

Another reality check:

Chris McCandless from an Alaska Park Ranger’s Perspective
by Peter Christian

Moderator cut: article removed - potential copyright infringement. Post link instead please.

Last edited by christina0001; 05-12-2008 at 08:42 PM.. Reason: potential copyright infringement
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Old 05-12-2008, 07:09 PM
 
3,414 posts, read 7,144,723 times
Reputation: 1467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Moderator cut: article removed - potential copyright infringement.
Amen, brother. Amen.

Last edited by christina0001; 05-12-2008 at 08:43 PM.. Reason: potential copyright infringement
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Old 05-12-2008, 10:17 PM
 
14,993 posts, read 23,896,013 times
Reputation: 26523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Moderator cut: article removed - potential copyright infringement. Post link instead please.
Oh man, this is a public domain source....OK see if this passes, no one clicks on links. Can I link and paste?

http://nmge.gmu.edu/textandcommunity...n_Response.pdf
via
Text and Community 2006: Into the Wild
which has several good commentaries besides the below

Chris McCandless from an Alaska Park Ranger’s Perspective
by Peter Christian
Both Chris McCandless and I arrived in Alaska in 1992. We both came to Alaska from
the area around Washington, D.C. We were both about the same age and had a similar
idea in mind; to live a free life in the Alaska wild. Fourteen years later Chris McCandless
is dead and I am living the dream I set out to win for myself. What made the difference
in these two outcomes?
There was nothing heroic or even mysterious about what Chris McCandless did in April
1992. Like many Alaskans, I read Jon Krakauer’s book “Into the Wild” when it first
came out and finished it thinking, “why does this guy rate an entire book?” The fact that
Krakauer is a great outdoor writer and philosopher is the bright spot and it makes a great
read, but McCandless was not something special.
As a park ranger both at Denali National Park, very near where McCandless died, and
now at Gates of the Arctic National Park, even more remote and wild than Denali, I am
exposed continually to what I will call the “McCandless Phenomenon.” People, nearly
always young men, come to Alaska to challenge themselves against an unforgiving
wilderness landscape where convenience of access and possibility of rescue are
practically no nexistent. I know the personality type because I was one of those young
men.
In fact, Alaska is populated with people who are either running away from something or
seeking themselves in America’s last frontier. It is a place very much like the frontier of
the Old West where you can come to and reinvent yourself. In reality, most people who
make it as far as Alaska never get past the cities of Fairbanks and Anchorage because
access is so difficult and expensive (usually by airplane), travel is so hard, the terrain is
challenging, the bears are real, and so on.
A very few competent and skillful people make a successful go at living a free life in the
wild, build a home in the mountains, raise their children there and eventually come back
with good stories and happy endings. A greater number give it a try, realize it is neither
easy nor romantic, just damn hard work, and quickly give up and return to town with
their tails between their legs, but alive and the wiser for it.
Some like McCandless, show up in Alaska, unprepared, unskilled and unwilling to take
the time to learn the skills they need to be successful. These quickly get in trouble and
either die by bears, by drowning, by freezing or they are rescued by park rangers or other
rescue personnel–but often, not before risking their lives and/or spending a lot of
government money on helicopters and overtime.
When you consider McCandless from my perspective, you quickly see that what he did
wasn’t even particularly daring, just stupid, tragic and inconsiderate. First off, he spent
very little time learning how to actually live in the wild. He arrived at the Stampede Trail
without even a map of the area. If he had a good map he could have walked out of his
predicament using one of several routes that could have been successful. Consider where
he died. An abandoned bus. How did it get there? On a trail. If the bus could get into
the place where it died, why couldn’t McCandless get out of the place where he died?
The fact that he had to live in an old bus in the first place tells you a lot. Why didn’t he
have an adequate shelter from the beginning? What would he have done if he hadn’t
found the bus? A bag of rice and a sleeping bag do not constitute adequate gear and
provisions for a long stay in the wilderness.
No experienced backcountry person would travel during the month of April. It is a time
of transition from winter’s frozen rivers and hard packed snow with good traveling
conditions into spring’s quagmire of mud and raging waters where even small creeks
become impassible. Hungry bears come out of their dens with just one thing in mind—
eating.
Furthermore, Chris McCandless poached a moose and then wasted it. He killed a
magnificent animal superbly conditioned to survive the rigors of the Alaskan wild then,
inexperienced in how to preserve meat without refrigeration (the Eskimos and Indians do
it to this day), he watched 1500 pounds of meat rot away in front of him. He’s lucky the
stench didn’t bring a grizzly bear to end his suffering earlier. And in the end, the moose
died for nothing.
So what made the difference between McCandless and I fourteen years ago? Why am I
alive and he is dead? Essentially, Chris McCandless committed suicide while I
apprenticed myself to a career and a life that I wanted more badly than I can possibly
describe in so short an essay. In the end I believe that the difference between us was that
I wanted to live and Chris McCandless wanted to die (whether he realized it or not). The
fact that he died in a compelling way doesn’t change that outcome. He might have made
it work if he had respected the wilderness he was purported to have loved. But it is my
belief that surviving in the wilderness is not what he had in mind.

I did not start this essay to trash poor Chris McCandless. Not intentionally. It is sad that
the boy had to die. The tragedy is that McCandless more than likely was suffering from
mental illness and didn’t have to end his life the way he did. The fact that he chose
Alaska’s wildlands to do it in speaks more to the fact that it makes a good story than to
the fact that McCandless was heroic or somehow extraordinary. In the end, he was sadly
ordinary in his disrespect for the land, the animals, the history, and the self-sufficiency
ethos of Alaska, the Last Frontier.
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Old 05-13-2008, 06:10 AM
 
Location: in the southwest
13,395 posts, read 45,027,833 times
Reputation: 13599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
When you consider McCandless from my perspective.....
The above quote essentially tells the reader everything he needs to know.
Quote:
...So what made the difference between McCandless and I fourteen years ago? Why am I
alive and he is dead? Essentially, Chris McCandless committed suicide while I
apprenticed myself to a career and a life....
And this is another illustration of that first quote. While I am sure he appreciates Alaska's beauty, I don't think that this park ranger was exactly an "aesthetic voyager."
Quote:
But it is my
belief that surviving in the wilderness is not what he had in mind.....
We get it. Yes. Chris entered Alaska's wild ill-prepared, misguided.
On top of that, he did not succeed in smoking the moose meat. (at least he didn't leave a bunch of Bud Lite cans around the carcass.)
Finally, in the park ranger's opinion, Chris came to Alaska unconsciously or consciously intending to commit suicide.
I do not agree with this opinion.
I've known far too many heedless young people, especially young men, who impulsively, selfishly wandered to the edge as Chris did. Death was not on their minds.
Some of them didn't make it; the ones who did learned from it.
Every lesson is different.
Quote:
The fact that he chose
Alaska’s wildlands to do it in speaks more to the fact that it makes a good story than to
the fact that McCandless was heroic or somehow extraordinary.
Well, it *is* a good story, though some people resent it being told.
I think of McCandless more as a seeker than a hero.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:05 AM
 
3,414 posts, read 7,144,723 times
Reputation: 1467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Oh man, this is a public domain source....OK see if this passes, no one clicks on links. Can I link and paste?

http://nmge.gmu.edu/textandcommunity...n_Response.pdf
via
Text and Community 2006: Into the Wild
which has several good commentaries besides the below

Chris McCandless from an Alaska Park Ranger’s Perspective
by Peter Christian
Both Chris McCandless and I arrived in Alaska in 1992. We both came to Alaska from
the area around Washington, D.C. We were both about the same age and had a similar
idea in mind; to live a free life in the Alaska wild. Fourteen years later Chris McCandless
is dead and I am living the dream I set out to win for myself. What made the difference
in these two outcomes?
There was nothing heroic or even mysterious about what Chris McCandless did in April
1992. Like many Alaskans, I read Jon Krakauer’s book “Into the Wild” when it first
came out and finished it thinking, “why does this guy rate an entire book?” The fact that
Krakauer is a great outdoor writer and philosopher is the bright spot and it makes a great
read, but McCandless was not something special.
As a park ranger both at Denali National Park, very near where McCandless died, and
now at Gates of the Arctic National Park, even more remote and wild than Denali, I am
exposed continually to what I will call the “McCandless Phenomenon.” People, nearly
always young men, come to Alaska to challenge themselves against an unforgiving
wilderness landscape where convenience of access and possibility of rescue are
practically no nexistent. I know the personality type because I was one of those young
men.
In fact, Alaska is populated with people who are either running away from something or
seeking themselves in America’s last frontier. It is a place very much like the frontier of
the Old West where you can come to and reinvent yourself. In reality, most people who
make it as far as Alaska never get past the cities of Fairbanks and Anchorage because
access is so difficult and expensive (usually by airplane), travel is so hard, the terrain is
challenging, the bears are real, and so on.
A very few competent and skillful people make a successful go at living a free life in the
wild, build a home in the mountains, raise their children there and eventually come back
with good stories and happy endings. A greater number give it a try, realize it is neither
easy nor romantic, just damn hard work, and quickly give up and return to town with
their tails between their legs, but alive and the wiser for it.
Some like McCandless, show up in Alaska, unprepared, unskilled and unwilling to take
the time to learn the skills they need to be successful. These quickly get in trouble and
either die by bears, by drowning, by freezing or they are rescued by park rangers or other
rescue personnel–but often, not before risking their lives and/or spending a lot of
government money on helicopters and overtime.
When you consider McCandless from my perspective, you quickly see that what he did
wasn’t even particularly daring, just stupid, tragic and inconsiderate. First off, he spent
very little time learning how to actually live in the wild. He arrived at the Stampede Trail
without even a map of the area. If he had a good map he could have walked out of his
predicament using one of several routes that could have been successful. Consider where
he died. An abandoned bus. How did it get there? On a trail. If the bus could get into
the place where it died, why couldn’t McCandless get out of the place where he died?
The fact that he had to live in an old bus in the first place tells you a lot. Why didn’t he
have an adequate shelter from the beginning? What would he have done if he hadn’t
found the bus? A bag of rice and a sleeping bag do not constitute adequate gear and
provisions for a long stay in the wilderness.
No experienced backcountry person would travel during the month of April. It is a time
of transition from winter’s frozen rivers and hard packed snow with good traveling
conditions into spring’s quagmire of mud and raging waters where even small creeks
become impassible. Hungry bears come out of their dens with just one thing in mind—
eating.
Furthermore, Chris McCandless poached a moose and then wasted it. He killed a
magnificent animal superbly conditioned to survive the rigors of the Alaskan wild then,
inexperienced in how to preserve meat without refrigeration (the Eskimos and Indians do
it to this day), he watched 1500 pounds of meat rot away in front of him. He’s lucky the
stench didn’t bring a grizzly bear to end his suffering earlier. And in the end, the moose
died for nothing.
So what made the difference between McCandless and I fourteen years ago? Why am I
alive and he is dead? Essentially, Chris McCandless committed suicide while I
apprenticed myself to a career and a life that I wanted more badly than I can possibly
describe in so short an essay. In the end I believe that the difference between us was that
I wanted to live and Chris McCandless wanted to die (whether he realized it or not). The
fact that he died in a compelling way doesn’t change that outcome. He might have made
it work if he had respected the wilderness he was purported to have loved. But it is my
belief that surviving in the wilderness is not what he had in mind.

I did not start this essay to trash poor Chris McCandless. Not intentionally. It is sad that
the boy had to die. The tragedy is that McCandless more than likely was suffering from
mental illness and didn’t have to end his life the way he did. The fact that he chose
Alaska’s wildlands to do it in speaks more to the fact that it makes a good story than to
the fact that McCandless was heroic or somehow extraordinary. In the end, he was sadly
ordinary in his disrespect for the land, the animals, the history, and the self-sufficiency
ethos of Alaska, the Last Frontier.
Amen brother, amen.
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