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Do you have the sense that the people who find "Endgame" to be "sad" would also find "The Brave Little Toaster" to be "sad"? Death is often an emotionally powerful theme. But it's also a theme that leaves the strongest impression among juvenile audiences. The concept of finality can be quite a jarring one for an 8-year old.
Actually, I'll cast no shade on The Brave Little Toaster. That's actually a great little movie --- and has a lot more pathos than any of the AVENGERS movies --- and I say that as someone who quite liked two of the three AVENGERS flicks.
TBLT is unabashedly and unashamedly a kids movie, but that doesn't keep it from being smart with a surprising amount of depth.
"For kids" doesn't necessarily have to mean "empty entertainment only." Too many kids movies talk down to kids. More should try to lift them up.
Actually, I'll cast no shade on The Brave Little Toaster. That's actually a great little movie --- and has a lot more pathos than any of the AVENGERS movies --- and I say that as someone who quite liked two of the three AVENGERS flicks.
TBLT is unabashedly and unashamedly a kids movie, but that doesn't keep it from being smart with a surprising amount of depth.
"For kids" doesn't necessarily have to mean "empty entertainment only." Too many kids movies talk down to kids. More should try to lift them up.
Oh, I agree they are great movies. I just think they are close to the same intellectual level as MCU films. "Sadness" is about the extent of the emotional complexity an 8-year old can process intellectually and experience in a visceral way. So when people say these MCU films have depth because they get teary-eyed when Iron Man dies at the end, I don't really see how that's any different from TBLT or The Lion King. Those films can't explore any themes much deeper than that because most kids simply wouldn't get it (some adults wouldn't get it either).
Tony Stark valiantly dying at the end is not really the same as Michael Corleone dying at the end of the Godfather saga. Stark dies fighting bad guys. Easy to understand. Michael dies under the weight of a guilty conscience. It's not just "sad" because his daughter dies; it's sad that he's made a lifetime of decisions that led to that point.
So are both "cinema"? Who's to say? But one is a lot less complex due to the broad demographics the studio is targeting.
Oh, I agree they are great movies. I just think they are close to the same intellectual level as MCU films. "Sadness" is about the extent of the emotional complexity an 8-year old can process intellectually and experience in a visceral way. So when people say these MCU films have depth because they get teary-eyed when Iron Man dies at the end, I don't really see how that's any different from TBLT or The Lion King. Those films can't explore any themes much deeper than that because most kids simply wouldn't get it (some adults wouldn't get it either).
Tony Stark valiantly dying at the end is not really the same as Michael Corleone dying at the end of the Godfather saga. Stark dies fighting bad guys. Easy to understand. Michael dies under the weight of a guilty conscience. It's not just "sad" because his daughter dies; it's sad that he's made a lifetime of decisions that led to that point.
So are both "cinema"? Who's to say? But one is a lot less complex due to the broad demographics the studio is targeting.
I can see you've still chosen to ignore my response to End Game/Marvel movies having more than just sadness as an emotion. And Stark died because he chose to sacrifice himself, knowing it was the only way they'd win once and for all. Yeah, they were in a war with the bad guys, but his choice led to his death. (Hence Dr. Strange and how he saw into the future that there was only one outcome where they'd emerge victorious)
And all of Stark's choices in life led up to his death. Again, he went through with it because he was promised it would bring everyone back, especially Spider-Man, who he saw as a son.
His movies are different from Marvel movies, sure, but his MAIN beef appears to be with theater owners and distributors and the difficulty of getting other movies shown, not with the movies themselves.
That's exactly what it is. Boor crybaby couldn't get enough funding for The Irishman, and no one really wanted to pick it up. That's why it's available on Netflix the same day it's out in theaters. Other reason is because it's 4 hour movie. It's also a movie he should've made years ago when De Niro, Pacino, and Pesci were a lot younger. Surprised they didn't need walkers or a travel nurse onsite for this film. And Scorsese took a note from Marvel and Disney's page by using the CGI/digital face mapping technology they use to make actors look younger. He used quite a bit on Pacino and you can notice it instantly. So he should be thanking Marvel if anything.
I can see you've still chosen to ignore my response to End Game/Marvel movies having more than just sadness as an emotion. And Stark died because he chose to sacrifice himself, knowing it was the only way they'd win once and for all. Yeah, they were in a war with the bad guys, but his choice led to his death. (Hence Dr. Strange and how he saw into the future that there was only one outcome where they'd emerge victorious)
Yes, the MCU has all the depth of a Nancy Drew novel. Actually, I'm not sure why I'm insulting Nancy Drew novels. They have much better storylines.
Oh, I agree they are great movies. I just think they are close to the same intellectual level as MCU films. "Sadness" is about the extent of the emotional complexity an 8-year old can process intellectually and experience in a visceral way. So when people say these MCU films have depth because they get teary-eyed when Iron Man dies at the end, I don't really see how that's any different from TBLT or The Lion King. Those films can't explore any themes much deeper than that because most kids simply wouldn't get it (some adults wouldn't get it either).
Tony Stark valiantly dying at the end is not really the same as Michael Corleone dying at the end of the Godfather saga. Stark dies fighting bad guys. Easy to understand. Michael dies under the weight of a guilty conscience. It's not just "sad" because his daughter dies; it's sad that he's made a lifetime of decisions that led to that point.
Agreed.
Which is why I think that the response of "It's a super hero movie! What do you expect?" any time someone points out pretty big weaknesses in the genre is cop out. I get it that these are super hero movies, not Aeschylus or Chekov. That's still no excuse for weak writing and downright idiot plots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
So are both "cinema"? Who's to say? But one is a lot less complex due to the broad demographics the studio is targeting.
Aim high. That's all I'm asking. I don't care what the genre is. Make the absolute best movie possible. Anything less is a waste of our time and money.
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