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Acts like The Beatles and The Rolling Stones hardly have more name recognition than the likes of Elvis and The Beach Boys.
The rest of the bands you list: The Who, The Kinks, solo blues artists like Eric Clapton, and Cream, are not "BY FAR" more popular than ANY American bands listed.
Eric Clapton was not a novelty. He was a blues rock guitarist. America already had those by the time he became popular.
The Byrds are an American band. Are you talking about The Yardbirds? Who aren't particularly famous at all?
There are at least a dozen American bands and musicians on my list that are just as or more popular than them. The Who is not more popular than Aerosmith or Nirvana, and I wouldn't say they are "by far" more popular than the likes of Jefferson Airplane, The Monkees, ZZ Top, or The Stooges. How is Cream more popular or significant than Janis Joplin, Canned Heat, Grateful Dead, or Mountain? They really aren't.
It really seems like British chauvinism in music is a problem, because these posts are just mindless.
You message me to tell me you responded to me, and then you tell me I'm insane and what I say is mindless.
We disagree. This subject is something you're clearly passionate about...but we disagree.
Let's compare musical output in the 60s in the US vs the UK:
UK:
Donovan, The Small Faces, The Moody Blues, Spooky Tooth, The Move, Procol Harum, Caravan, The Troggs (US), Foghat, The Rolling Stones, The Creation, Soft Machine, Mannfred Mann (SA), Marianne Faithful, The Pink Fairies, The Pretty Things, Traffic, The Animals, The Zombies, Van Morrison, Jethro Tull, Cliff Richard + The Shadows, Stealer’s Wheel, The Beatles, The Kinks, The Yardbirds, Fairport Convention, The Who, Spencer Davis Group, Mott The Hoople, Dave Clark Five, Stone the Crows, Herman’s Hermits, Ten Years After, Van Der Graaf Generator, Them (US), John Mayall’s Bluesbreakers
US:
The Walker Brothers, The Electric Flag, Goldenrod, New Colony Six, Fifty Foot Hose, The Invictas, Johnny Winter, The Groupies, Every Mother's Son, Mad River, Curt Boettcher + The Ballroom, The Frost, Phafner, The United States of America, Frijid Pink, Lotti Golden, Fever Tree, Grateful Dead, Road, The Outsiders, The Electric Prunes, Nazz, Little Feat, The Archies, The Lollipop Shoppe, Blues Image, The Blues Project, Bulbous Creation, Dragonwyck, Bubble Puppy, H.P. Lovecraft, Wizard, The Deep, The Beau Brummels, The Poor, Sopwith Camel, It’s a Beautiful Day, Ultimate Spinach, The Peanut Butter Conspiracy, Fresh Blueberry Pancake, Carly Simon, Carole King, Christopher, Rare Earth, The Red Crayola, Paul Butterfield Blues Band, Roy Head & The Traits, The Tornados, Freddy Cannon, The Music Machine, The Droogs, The Doors, Johnny and The Hurricanes, Quicksilver Messenger Service, Strawberry Alarm Clock, The Flying Burrito Brothers, Sam and Dave, Frumious Bandersnatch, Johnny Nash, Gladys Knight + The Pips, Gandalf, The Turtles, The Four Seasons, Fanny, The Universals, Ike and Tina Turner, The Oxford Circle, Merry Clayton, Roy Orbison, The Arrows, The Buckinghams, The Standells, The Banshees, The Prophets, The McCoys, Truth and Janey, The Seeds, The Fabulous Wailers, The Chocolate Watchband, The Lemon Pipers, Moby Grape, The Rascals, Country Joe and The Fish, The Charlatans, Dick Dale + The Surfaris, Johnny Jenkins, Love, James Brown, Peter, Paul, and Mary, Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young, Philip Glass, Neil Diamond, The Box Tops, Soul Survivors, Vince Guaraldi, Otis Redding, Three Dog Night, Joan Baez, Sir Douglas Quintet, The Supremes, The Monkees, Max Frost and The Troopers, The Ronettes, Ray Charles, The Temptations, Neil Young and Crazy Horse (CA), ? and The Mysterians, The Youngbloods, Clear Light, The 13th Floor Elevators, The Kingsmen, The Lovin’ Spoonful, Blood, Sweat, and Tears, Buffalo Springfield, Booker T and The M.G.’s, Lyme and Cybelle, Redbone, Haystacks Balboa, The Left Banke, Lincoln St. Exit, Paul Revere and The Raiders, The Sonics, Count Five, Simon and Garfunkel, Coven, Nancy Sinatra, Tower of Power, The Monks, The Mystery Trend, Golden Dawn, Tony Bennett, MC5, Vanilla Fudge, Mountain, Cromagnon, Yesterday’s Children, The Mothers of Invention, Blue Cheer, Bloodrock, Iron Butterfly, Marvin Gaye, Bob Dylan, Big Brother and The Holding Company + Janis Joplin, Canned Heat, Aretha Franklin, Blues Magoos, Grand Funk Railroad, Jimi Hendrix, Steppenwolf (CA), Bread, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Amboy Dukes, The Beach Boys, The Velvet Underground, The Byrds, Tommy James and The Shondells, Larry and The Blue Notes, The Knickerbockers, The Mamas and The Papas, The Stooges, Jefferson Airplane
Yeah, it looks like America won the 60s, not Britain.
I have a few here for the UK I'd like to list--starting with Pink Floyd.And Jeff Beck. For the record, I love the American list, particularly the obscure bands like Haystacks Balboa. l will get into the reason why they matter a little later today. My apolgies if I have one here that is already listed here. Here's a few more---
Petula Clark, Cilla Black, Freddy and the Dreamers, Searchers, Adam Faith, Billy Fury, Billy J. Kramer and the Dakotas, Peter and Gordon, Chad and Jeremy, Humblebums, Tom Jones, Hollies, Savoy Brown, Dusty Springfield, Gerry and the Pacemakers, Troggs, Wayne Fontana and the Mindbenders, Fortunes, Georgie Fame, Ian Whitcomb, Alexis Corners Blues Incorporated, Shirley Bassey, Swing Blue jeans, Honeycombs, Davis, Sandie Shaw, Shirley Bassey, Dave Dee Dozy Beaky Mick and Tick, Merseybeats, Graham Bond Organization, Crispian St. Peters, Nashville Teens, Barron Knights, Fourmost, Shannon, Peter Sarstedt, New Vaudville, Unit 4 + 2, Rockin' berries, Chris Andrews, Silkie, Lulu, David and Jonathan, Ivy League, Four Pennies, Jonathan King, Tornados, Hullaballoos, Applejacks, Johnny Kidd, Rod Stewart and Steampacket, Alan Price Set, John's Children, Screaming Lord Sutch and the Savages, Hedgehoppers Anonymous, Merseys, Billie Davis, Zoot Money, Marty Wilde, the Montanas.
The above are just names off the top of my head as I had a few minutes of my time last night flipping through the old (and I mean OLD) record collection. I almost forgot--Fleetwood Mac--a British blues Band who shuffled the lineup from time to time and by 1975 brought in two Americans-Lindsay Buckingham and VOILA! Drew a royal flush!
Highlighted by the fact that you call The Who, The Animals, and The Rolling Stones "early 60s bands" when their popularity began in the mid-to-late decade, well after the American innovation in rock music (garage rock, jazz fusion, surf rock, instrumental rock, experimental rock) had started to hit the UK. Surf rock came before any of this, THAT is what inspired the rock music explosion - Experimental rock, Instrumental rock, Jazz fusion, all of this existed in the US from the late 50s.
Rock was born in the US. No one in their right mind disputes that. After a creative explosion in the '50s from the likes of Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Elvis, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Ray Charles, etc., there was a backlash. Radios wouldn't play black artists. Parents would allow their kids to listen to black music. But they would release sanitized cover versions by Pat Boone and the like.
Musically there was a lot of sophistication. Surf rock in particular produced some great guitarists.
Lyrically? Everything was still pretty stale and "safe." You had love songs, break-up songs, dance songs, car songs, beach songs, and not much else. It was all pretty tame and shallow and geared specifically toward teenagers.
And yes, it was the British Invasion that changed all that. Listen to the Beatles' first album, and it does indeed sound like they are copying Buddy Holly (which they were), but it was acts like the Beatles, the Who, the Animals, the Kinks, etc. who introduced a lyrical (and musical) sophistication that hadn't been there before. Sure, the British acts were listening to and performing a lot of American covers, but they were also going in new directions.
Maybe you can debate what exactly constitutes the "early" sixties. But the Animals had their first single out in '62. The Beatles were hitting America by '63. The Who and the Kinks had their first singles out in '64. You want to call that "mid" 60s rather than "early" sixties? Fine. But you're debating semantics, and not the point that the British Invasion took rock and roll into areas of sophistication that hadn't been there before.
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Originally Posted by blanketstate
You can't claim that British bands, playing covers of American songs, in styles that sounded identical to American blues and rock music, were innovating anything - period.
Sure I can. I just did.
Even the Beach Boys's best stuff --- and Brian Wilson was a musical genius --- didn't really start to innovate and go beyond silly beach songs until Brian Wilson started trying to out-do McCartney and Lennon. The competition made them a better band.
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Originally Posted by blanketstate
They weren't getting "the sanitized safe version", this is complete anti-American cultural revisionism.
No. It's fact. Lots of radio stations wouldn't play Little Richard. But they would play this:
Plus, if British musicians were alone more influential in the 60s, where are SOLELY British genres of music? Because I can't find any.
No one is claiming the Brits invented rock and roll. They just made it better in the '60s.
But if you want to play the "origins" game, then okay. Rock and roll largely came from the blues and relied heavily on the guitar. The blues had its roots in African music, and the guitar came from Spain, which was modified from Arabic / Moorish instruments of North Africa.
So if we insist on moving the goalposts to score a touchdown, we're going to have to claim that rock and roll isn't really American after all, but African.
You have the audacity to say the likes of Kansas and Styx are bad taste, but list a bunch of mostly one-hit wonder 80s pop and post-punk bands from the UK as examples of your good taste?
Works for me.
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That's ridiculous. Let's tone down the arrogance.
You might take your own advice. Leave your emotions out of the discussion and proceed rationally. Then people might take you seriously. Might.
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Elvis Costello? Adam and the Ants? The Fall? None of these are acts worth noting.
Elvis Costello, at the very least, was enormously influential on American artists such as R.E.M., Michael Penn, Lenny Kravitz, the Ramones, the Connells, John Wesley Harding, even Linda Ronstadt ... and on British artists as well.
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Other than completely over-valuing British bands like Roxy Music and...Throbbing Gristle? Gang of Four are a relatively obscure post-punk group
More enormously influential British bands, especially Roxy Music. Roxy Music, Gang of Four, David Bowie, Sex Pistols, the Clash, the Damned, Wire, Bauhaus ... Their influences can be seen and heard in every U.S. alternative music scene in the late 70s and 80s, from Minneapolis to LA to Athens to Boston to Comboland (North Carolina) to Austin.
"Obscure" does not mean "not influential". I submit the Memphis band Big Star as a prime example, influencing power pop bands in the UK and the US alike.
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Originally Posted by blanketstate
This is insane
That's about the only thing you have correct so far.
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Originally Posted by blanketstate
Highlighted by the fact that you call The Who, The Animals, and The Rolling Stones "early 60s bands" when their popularity began in the mid-to-late decade
Gerry and the Pacemakers: 1956
Dave Clark Five: 1958
The Beatles: 1960
The Zombies: 1961
The Rolling Stones: 1962
The Animals: 1962
The Hollies: 1962
The Who: 1963
Moody Blues: 1963
The Yardbirds: 1963
The Kinks: 1963
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The Rolling Stones were playing covers of American blues songs as late as 65.
As late as ... well, probably even this year ... but you know best, right?
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The only British band to receive significant success in the 64-66 time period was The Beatles
Charts of airplay and record sales say differently.
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outside of that, you had smaller acts, like The Kinks
If the Kinks and the Beatles were the only British acts you heard in the early to mid 60s, you weren't listening.
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Originally Posted by blanketstate
This is very easy to observe, but you refuse to observe this, because you're overvaluing The Beatles and The Stones, who became popular in the US at the same time US-grown trends like Garage rock, Surf rock, Experimental rock, Jazz fusion, Instrumental rock, Pop rock, and Electric Blues were giving rise to genres like Psychedelic rock, Hard and Soft rock, Acid rock, Folk rock, Electronic rock, and more
Interesting how you included these various genres in your list of US artists, but not in your lists of British artists. And of course there were genres in the UK that weren't terribly popular in the US, such as skiffle. Didn't see any of those artists in your UK list, either. Oops.
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You're commenting on music, and yet you're offhandedly dismissing extremely important musical innovations like "the Wall of Sound"
How odd. I mentioned the Wall of Sound as a big part of the US music scene in the early 60s, which it was. How does that translate to "dismissing" it?
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The only tactic you've used to attempt to argue against this fact is the frenzied rejection of any and every American band, musician, and music genre I name - it makes you look delusionaly pro-British and anti-American.
Once again: Music fans have the capacity to enjoy the music from both UK and US artists. Liking a UK artist is neither pro-British nor anti-American.
Well, at least some music fans have that capacity ...
Rock was born in the US. No one in their right mind disputes that. After a creative explosion in the '50s from the likes of Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Elvis, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Ray Charles, etc., there was a backlash. Radios wouldn't play black artists. Parents would allow their kids to listen to black music. But they would release sanitized cover versions by Pat Boone and the like.
Radios would play black artists - some radio stations in the south wouldn't. Some parents around the country wouldn't let their kids listen to music by black artists. Many did.
there's nothing "sanitized" about Pat Boone cover versions. And all of this is immaterial - "black artists" are American.
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Lyrically? Everything was still pretty stale and "safe." You had love songs, break-up songs, dance songs, car songs, beach songs, and not much else. It was all pretty tame and shallow and geared specifically toward teenagers.
And yes, it was the British Invasion that changed all that. Listen to the Beatles' first album, and it does indeed sound like they are copying Buddy Holly (which they were), but it was acts like the Beatles, the Who, the Animals, the Kinks, etc. who introduced a lyrical (and musical) sophistication that hadn't been there before. Sure, the British acts were listening to and performing a lot of American covers, but they were also going in new directions.
No, it was not the "British Invasion" that changed all that. You cannot explain how the lyrics of the Beatles are more sophisticated than their American counterparts I've already listed, because they weren't. You just say they were, and expect that to do the job. How are the lyrics of The Who, The Animals, or The Kinks "sophisticated"? They are not sophisticated. They took music in no more of a "new direction" than their American counterparts did.
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Maybe you can debate what exactly constitutes the "early" sixties. But the Animals had their first single out in '62. The Beatles were hitting America by '63. The Who and the Kinks had their first singles out in '64. You want to call that "mid" 60s rather than "early" sixties? Fine. But you're debating semantics, and not the point that the British Invasion took rock and roll into areas of sophistication that hadn't been there before.
The Animals first hit in America was a cover - "House of the Rising Sun", in 1964, which Bob Dylan had already performed to great success. Their chart successes in America were mostly covers, or songs written and composed by American artists like Carol King.
The Beatles didn't become popular in the US until their appearance on the Ed Sullivan show. They were the lone British band releasing actually original music. The Beach Boys, their American contemporaries, were releasing popular garage rock and surf rock content from 1962, and had global chart hits in 1964.
The Who and The Kinks were practically one-hit-wonders as far as the 1960s is concerned. The former only found significant success in the late 60s and early 70s. The latter had one song break through the American charts in 1964.
There wasn't a lot of British talent on the American Billboard charts, The Beatles and The Rolling Stones excepted. You had middle tier British bands performing songs written by American artists, and novelty artists like Petula Clark in the period from 64 - 66. All years had substantial American successes, from artists like The Four Seasons, The Beach Boys, The McCoys, The Young Rascals, and more.
So, none of the facts actually support the idea that it was only British musicians who were releasing "sophisticated" music in the narrow time frame you claim they did. They didn't. Their music wasn't sophisticated, at least, not more than the American artists active at the same time.
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Even the Beach Boys's best stuff --- and Brian Wilson was a musical genius --- didn't really start to innovate and go beyond silly beach songs until Brian Wilson started trying to out-do McCartney and Lennon. The competition made them a better band.
Characterizing the Beach Boys surf rock stuff as "silly beach songs" while characterizing Beatles nonsense like "Come Together", "Here Comes the Sun", and "Yellow Submarine" as "superior" is ridiculous, and the Anglophilia you must have to make the musical successes of the Beach Boys about The Beatles ("The competition made them a better band") is ridiculous. There's nothing I can say to make you realize how Eurocentric and absurd that sounds.
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No. It's fact. Lots of radio stations wouldn't play Little Richard. But they would play this:
This is fact: Little Richard toured throughout the US, played integrated audiences in most of the largest northern cities, and scored 9 top 40 pop singles and 17 top 40 R&B singles.
American blues and r&b music was informally censored, too, in the UK, Australia, Canada, etc, for being "too black".
There was no national censor on black R&B and Rock and Roll artists. That is completely ahistorical. Some southern radio stations - primarily rural - wouldn't play black artists.
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No one is claiming the Brits invented rock and roll. They just made it better in the '60s.
No, they didn't. You've utterly failed to support this assertion. Americans were innovating music at the same time, to popular effect, and are recognized for musical innovation throughout the 60s. Please give me an example of a subgenre of rock music that is solely British that was invented in the 60s. That is the objective way to track the diversification and development of music - Americans were innovating rock music in the 60s, and the famous British counterparts you're obsessed with were only participants in this innovation. Giving them all the credit for an American art form is ridiculous. As Wikipedia states:
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Rock music is a broad genre of popular music that originated as "rock and roll" in the United States in the late 1940s and early 1950s, developing into a range of different styles in the mid-1960s and later, particularly in the United States and the United Kingdom
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But if you want to play the "origins" game, then okay. Rock and roll largely came from the blues and relied heavily on the guitar. The blues had its roots in African music, and the guitar came from Spain, which was modified from Arabic / Moorish instruments of North Africa.
So if we insist on moving the goalposts to score a touchdown, we're going to have to claim that rock and roll isn't really American after all, but African.
Pointing out that rock music, the electric guitar, and blues music are American cultural products isn't "moving the goal post", it's a fact. If you can't acknowledge this, you need to consider why you are so anti-American, and why you can't acknowledge obviously American culture.
The British Invasion bands you're talking about literally covered American songs and copied American styles identically. They played on electric instruments invented by Americans for the purpose of playing American songs. They came to the US to record. They would not have existed if it weren't for a plethora of American innovations in music going back to the late 19th century, like the pop standard, the wall of sound, pop music, rhythm and blues, jazz, and more. They even named themselves after American places, mimicked American accents, and sang about American topics.
So if you mean to equate those outright appropriationist elements with the distant, antiquity-era global roots of various American music genres created by Americans in the 19th and 20th centuries, then you're not a serious person. In that case, no European country has a legitimate culture. Can Americans take credit for "perfecting" classical music, because of our developments in orchestral styles of 19th and 20th centuries (avant-garde, progressive, and minimalist classical)?
The Blues came about as a combination of African American and European American folkways in the US south around the time of the Civil War. This is how almost the entire popular music canon was born, and it was distinctly American. No, it is not "African". It's American. It wasn't Africans or Spaniards who invented the electric guitar, it wasn't Africans who played blues, rock and roll, rockabilly, jazz, etc, it was Americans, of various ethno-racial mixes, in the 19th and 20th centuries, who created those genres. If you can't admit this, then that tells me you have some kind of resentment about American cultural influence.
The British invasion artists that were popular in America weren't popular because their music was highly original, or distinctly "British". Their music was audibly American, and was therefore appreciated by Americans and an Americanized global culture.
Last edited by blanketstate; 09-07-2022 at 03:40 PM..
Elvis Costello, at the very least, was enormously influential on American artists such as R.E.M., Michael Penn, Lenny Kravitz, the Ramones, the Connells, John Wesley Harding, even Linda Ronstadt ... and on British artists as well.
Uh, Elvis Costello is not cited as an influence by most of the musicians and bands you list, as far as I can tell. Seriously, you're trying to claim that Elvis Costello had any notable influence on The Ramones, John Wesley Harding, and Linda Ronstadt, who had already hit the peak of their careers by the time Elvis Costello released his first single?
That's very weird British revisionism.
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More enormously influential British bands, especially Roxy Music. Roxy Music, Gang of Four, David Bowie, Sex Pistols, the Clash, the Damned, Wire, Bauhaus ... Their influences can be seen and heard in every U.S. alternative music scene in the late 70s and 80s, from Minneapolis to LA to Athens to Boston to Comboland (North Carolina) to Austin.
Roxy Music, Gang of Four, the Damned, and Wire are definitely not "enormously influential", and since you can't exactly quantify that, I would stop using that as an argument for every British artist you possibly can.
All of those British bands were more meaningfully influenced by American acts like The Velvet Underground, Television, Blondie, Bob Dylan, The Cramps, The Ramones, The Tubes, MC5, Little Richard, Screamin' Jay Hawkins, The Stooges, etc...
You're just erroneously, vaguely claiming that the British bands you list influenced entire American scenes - you don't even provide a quote, from any band or artist, attributing influence to any of the British bands you list.
That's not to say that none of these British bands have influenced any American bands, but you're listing these bands as influences with the implication that this proves that they were more influential than any American artists of their time, that could be listed as contemporaries.
And since artists take inspiration from a range of influences, including from bands that might only be locally popular, this particular point of yours just comes across as ridiculous and ignorant.
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Gerry and the Pacemakers: 1956
Dave Clark Five: 1958
The Beatles: 1960
The Zombies: 1961
The Rolling Stones: 1962
The Animals: 1962
The Hollies: 1962
The Who: 1963
Moody Blues: 1963
The Yardbirds: 1963
The Kinks: 1963
you know there are a lot more American rock n roll, surf rock, instrumental rock, pop, and garage rock groups that were formed in any of these years than British? You missed the point.
Leaving me a list of founding dates for any British band created in the late 50s and early 60s does not dispute the fact that 1) most of these bands weren't that popular and 2) none of them received significant popularity before the mid-60s - the bands you named that produced a substantial amount of original, popular content (basically, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, and The Who) received most of their popularity from 1965 or 1966. They were influenced by various American trends of the 50s and 60s as well.
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As late as ... well, probably even this year ... but you know best, right?
The Rolling Stones started releasing original songs, to popular effect, in 1965. They reached mainstream success in the late 60s and 70s. That's a fact.
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Charts of airplay and record sales say differently.
Feel free to click through the 1960s on the Billboard chart - a handful of British artists were successful - a good amount of them playing covers of Americans songs, or songs written by Americans.
The few that were releasing original continent were few and far between (basically, only The Beatles and The Rolling Stones). Overall, every year has a majority of American bands and musicians, playing songs written by themselves, or other Americans.
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If the Kinks and the Beatles were the only British acts you heard in the early to mid 60s, you weren't listening.
I wasn't alive in the early to mid 60s, and I would posit that this quote is a perfect example of your Anglophilia. The fact that they're British clearly comes before their music.
But it's the truth that these bands were outliers - American artists and bands dominated the Billboard charts of every decade, and naming every possible British act that was remotely popular from these decades doesn't prove your point.
No one said British bands and musicians weren't popular, or relatively numerous. The point of dispute was people like you claiming American bands and musicians weren't just as, if not more popular, influential, and/or numerous. A claim that is utterly ridiculous, and pointedly false.
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Interesting how you included these various genres in your list of US artists, but not in your lists of British artists. And of course there were genres in the UK that weren't terribly popular in the US, such as skiffle. Didn't see any of those artists in your UK list, either. Oops.
This sentence doesn't compute to me. I never listed British artists. I named music genres, and cited the countries that were identified with their origination. And it kind of ruins your assertions of any kind of superior British musical innovation when none of the genres identified as arising during the 1960s have been cited as solely British in origin. Skiffle is an American music genre.
Why do you hate US artists so much? You seem positively infuriated at any example of American influence and prolificness in music, it kind of makes you look irrational.
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How odd. I mentioned the Wall of Sound as a big part of the US music scene in the early 60s, which it was. How does that translate to "dismissing" it?
You mentioned it in a sentence that was clearly trying to explain why American musical trends of the late 50s and early 60s were inferior to those that were British...
Last edited by blanketstate; 09-07-2022 at 03:44 PM..
Uh, Elvis Costello is not cited as an influence by most of the musicians and bands you list, as far as I can tell. Seriously, you're trying to claim that Elvis Costello had any notable influence on The Ramones, John Wesley Harding, and Linda Ronstadt, who had already hit the peak of their careers by the time Elvis Costello released his first single?
That's very weird British revisionism.
Roxy Music, Gang of Four, the Damned, and Wire are definitely not "enormously influential", and since you can't exactly quantify that, I would stop using that as an argument for every British artist you possibly can.
All of those British bands were more meaningfully influenced by American acts like The Velvet Underground, Television, Blondie, Bob Dylan, The Cramps, The Ramones, The Tubes, MC5, Little Richard, Screamin' Jay Hawkins, The Stooges, etc...
You're just erroneously, vaguely claiming that the British bands you list influenced entire American scenes - you don't even provide a quote, from any band or artist, attributing influence to any of the British bands you list.
That's not to say that none of these British bands have influenced any American bands, but you're listing these bands as influences with the implication that this proves that they were more influential than any American artists of their time, that could be listed as contemporaries.
And since artists take inspiration from a range of influences, including from bands that might only be locally popular, this particular point of yours just comes across as ridiculous and ignorant.
you know there are a lot more American rock n roll, surf rock, instrumental rock, pop, and garage rock groups that were formed in any of these years than British? You missed the point.
Leaving me a list of founding dates for any British bound created in the late 50s and early 60s does not dispute the fact that 1) most of these bands weren't that popular and 2) none of them received significant popularity before the mid-60s - the bands you named that produced a substantial amount of original, popular, content (basically, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, and The Who) received most of their popularity from 1965 or 1966. They were influenced by various American trends of the 50s and 60s as well.
As late as ... well, probably even this year ... but you know best, right?
Charts of airplay and record sales say differently.
If the Kinks and the Beatles were the only British acts you heard in the early to mid 60s, you weren't listening.
Interesting how you included these various genres in your list of US artists, but not in your lists of British artists. And of course there were genres in the UK that weren't terribly popular in the US, such as skiffle. Didn't see any of those artists in your UK list, either. Oops.
How odd. I mentioned the Wall of Sound as a big part of the US music scene in the early 60s, which it was. How does that translate to "dismissing" it?
Once again: Music fans have the capacity to enjoy the music from both UK and US artists. Liking a UK artist is neither pro-British nor anti-American.
Well, at least some music fans have that capacity ...
Dude, I think EVERYONE who has responded to you would agree with you on THAT.
You message me to tell me you responded to me, and then you tell me I'm insane and what I say is mindless.
We disagree. This subject is something you're clearly passionate about...but we disagree.
But you can't disagree when you said something that was wrong.
You claimed Eric Clapton, The Who, etc, had popularity that American bands and musicians "came nowhere near".
That is objectively wrong, and I listed 10s of bands and musicians, from the 50s to the 90s, that matched or eclipsed the acts you named in popularity.
I pointed out, for example, that the US had already produced popular blues guitarists, time and time again, before Eric Clapton came onto the scene (and he was contemporaries with a number of American blues guitarists, anyways, from Paul Butterfield to Johnny Jenkins to Johnny Winter).
Here's 100 or so British blues guitarists that Wikipedia indexes:
Come on, you can't just pretend these British bands and musicians don't have points of comparison in the American music scene. They do. And the American artists are a lot more original, for obvious reasons.
there's nothing "sanitized" about Pat Boone cover versions.
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record collection. I almost forgot--Fleetwood Mac--a British blues Band who shuffled the lineup from time to time and by 1975 brought in two Americans-Lindsay Buckingham and VOILA! 
Drew a royal flush!
