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Yet, in the 90s and early 2000's the only Brits I can think of are Muse, Radio Head, Oasis, Bush and Cold Play, maybe Artic Monkeys but I don't seem to remember them until after 2010. And for along time I thought The Strokes were British but I was wrong. hahaha
Americans definitely dominated rock in the 90s and 2000s.
Yet, in the 90s and early 2000's the only Brits I can think of are Muse, Radio Head, Oasis, Bush and Cold Play, maybe Artic Monkeys but I don't seem to remember them until after 2010. And for along time I thought The Strokes were British but I was wrong. hahaha
Americans definitely dominated rock in the 90s and 2000s.
(Blur)
The UK was killin it w/ drum & bass in the 90s/2000s.
Now in the US, I don't even know what the rock scene is like, seems to me, all the best Rock in all the world has already been done, and we are all on the decline of our respective falling empires.
The British Invasion were bands that relied on American Blues Artists, often stealing their music, so it goes back to American music.
But the BIG rock bands and acts were British. If you were to create a diagram of Rock n Roll hierarchy...British bands would be at the top.
They wouldn’t be, though. That’s an arbitrary claim - some big British rock bands are British, many are American. A couple outliers like The Beatles might be the most famous rock bands, but mostly, it seems it was American rock bands who had a majority share of the Billboard charts. Also, a lot of bands that weren’t popular then are now, and vice versa.
American musicians and bands were generally more plentiful for a lot longer and impacted music a lot more. I don’t understand why The Beatles and The Stones are held above the earlier, still legendary American influences in rock music like Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis, Nina Simone, Sam The Sham and the Pharaohs, Howlin’ Wolf, The Champs, etc…
Last edited by blanketstate; 08-31-2022 at 05:31 PM..
If I really had to pick one country out of the two ( not something I like), I’d say that Britain produced the more iconic bands, but that’s open to interpretation.
I would not, I think this is a completely arbitrary assertion that exists because of nation branding on Britain’s part - “the British Invasion”, “Britpop”. America doesn’t nation brand like Britain does, which I think vindicates the idea that no matter how iconic American bands and musicians are, they are taken for granted because American influence is seen as normative - hence, other countries have genres like “British Blues”, “Britpop/Britrock”, “Canrock”, etc, while America doesn’t have to attach any nationality-based prefix, because everyone knows pop and rock music are a product of American culture, whether they’re willing to admit it out loud or not.
I’d also chalk this up to normalized anti-Americanism (driven by Americanization, ironically enough) and cultural Eurocentrism
Last edited by blanketstate; 08-31-2022 at 05:41 PM..
The Beatles
The Rolling Stones
Led Zeppelin
The Who
Pink Floyd
Queen
Elton John
David Bowie
Cat Stevens
Black Sabbath
Deep Purple
Yes
Genesis
Cream
Humble Pie
In the 60s, even Jimi Hendrix had to launch his music career from England...
with 2 British dudes helping him out...Mitch Mitchell on drums and Noel Redding on bass.
The Jimi Hendix Experience.
I’m sorry, I think it really confirms the obnoxious British chauvinism that exists when you try to appropriate Jimi Hendrix to Britain, because he spent two years of his career in Britain.
Hendrix is American, he wrote all of his own songs, and that’s that. He’s American.
It’s a little silly to highlight the fact that Hendrix went to Britain at some point in his career, as if to try to frame the UK as the largest and most influential music market, while simultaneously not bothering to point out that not only did almost all the bands on your list play American styles of music, mimic American accents, sing about American themes and places, and cover or borrow from American songs, but they traveled to America to record, got American band members, writers, and producers, and many based their careers in America.
The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, and Cream and their members all took up residence in America at some point, or found their fame largely through American exposure. They often cribbed from American songs, and sang about American topics in American accents.
You’re also arbitrarily overrating some of these acts, at least in comparison to some of the American acts that you arbitrarily underrate, which kind of highlights that you have a determinedly anti-American Psychology in this respect.
What makes Elton John, David Bowie, and Cat Stevens any more legendary than Elvis, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Johnny Cash, Prince, Eddie Cochran, Screamin Jay Hawkins, Jobriath, Cher, Billy Joel…?
What makes Deep Purple any different from the thousands of similar sounding blues rock bands from that era, like Elf (and Ronnie James Dio), Blue Öyster Cult, Sir Lord Baltimore?
I don’t see how a handful of presently only moderately famous prog rock bands is a testament to Britain’s music scene, but you need to discount American bands like:
The Beach Boys
The Turtles
The Monkees
The Doors
Jimi Hendrix
Alice Cooper
Pentagram
Aerosmith
Van Halen
Funkadelic
The Velvet Underground
The Stooges
MC5
Blue Cheer
Iron Butterfly
ZZ Top
Cactus
Mountain
Grand Funk Railroad
Jefferson Airplane
Frank Zappa and The Mother’s
The Mamas and the Papas
Tommy James and the Shondells
The United States of America
New York Dolls
The Tubes
Bang
Dust
Yesterday’s Children
Bloodrock
Ramones
Television
Patti Smith
Lynyrd Skynyrd
The Eagles
Grateful Dead
13th Floor Elevators
Nirvana
Tool
Pearl Jam
Creedence Clearwater Revival
Soundgarden
Alice In Chains
Nine Inch Nails
Metallica
Todd Rundgren and Utopia
Kansas
Boston
The Cars
The Cramps
Bob Dylan
Frijid Pink
The Byrds
Blues Magoos
Big Brother and the Holding Company / Janis Joplin
Stevie Nicks / Fleetwood Mac
Aretha Franklin
Heart
Misfits
The Runaways
The Sonics
Love
The Four Seasons
Sly and the Family Stone
Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
Bob Seger System / Silver Bullet Band
Montrose / Sammy Hagar
Deftones
Incubus
Filter
Pantera
Sonic Youth
Captain Beefheart
Steve Miller Band
The Allman Brother’s Band
Chicago
Steely Dan
Blondie
Styx
Journey
Green Day
No Doubt
Sublime
Marilyn Manson
Veruca Salt
Hole
The Offspring
Stone Temple Pilots
Mudhoney
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Rage Against The Machine
Jane’s Addiction
Smashing Pumpkins
The Ventures
Roy Head and the Traits
The Surfaris
Muddy Waters
Buddy Guy
Buddy Holly + The Crickets
Gene Vincent and the Blue Caps
B.B. King
Sorry, but it’s a little ridiculous to be ignoring all of these American musicians and bands from the 50s to the 90s to claim that British bands dominated rock music because some British bands were popular in the 70s.
Last edited by blanketstate; 08-31-2022 at 05:42 PM..
There's something very "hipster cat meme" about the pro-this country vs anti-that country rhetoric. The UK had some early heavy metal (heavily influenced by Jimi Hendrix's stay in England), then the ska and punk era (in tandem with the punk style of the New York Dolls, Iggy Pop, and Ramones, etc., from late 60s to early 70s), followed by a lot of small label indie stuff in the 90s (not that innovative, that was also common in the U.S. by late 70s).
In the 90s I went out with a guy from the UK who was really insufferable with the "UK indie bands are the world's best" stuff. UK has never been able to hold a candle to the musical diversity in the U.S. Took years for me to stop having nightmares about that guy's horrible music ranting...
It seems as if Americanization has normalized American culture to the extent that cultural products seen as not American are automatically treated as more valuable. The phenomenon of American cultural hegemony had occurred by the time of 1940s and 50s globalization of American culture via the Marshall Plan, and the completion of post-WWII recovery in Europe and Asia, which created a post-1960 global culture that was basically just American culture.
The annoying thing is the refusal to recognize or give respect to American culture when it invented the “popular music” The Beatles mimicked, and the Jamaicans even used it to create Ska, Dub and Reggae
I don’t see how a handful of presently only moderately famous prog rock bands is a testament to Britain’s music scene, but you need to discount American bands like:
The Beach Boys
The Turtles
The Monkees
The Doors
Jimi Hendrix
Alice Cooper
Pentagram
Aerosmith
Van Halen
Funkadelic
The Velvet Underground
The Stooges
MC5
Blue Cheer
Iron Butterfly
ZZ Top
Cactus
Mountain
Grand Funk Railroad
Jefferson Airplane
Frank Zappa and The Mother’s
The Mamas and the Papas
Tommy James and the Shondells
The United States of America
New York Dolls
The Tubes
Bang
Dust
Yesterday’s Children
Bloodrock
Ramones
Television
Patti Smith
Lynyrd Skynyrd
The Eagles
Grateful Dead
13th Floor Elevators
Nirvana
Tool
Pearl Jam
Creedence Clearwater Revival
Soundgarden
Alice In Chains
Nine Inch Nails
Metallica
Todd Rundgren and Utopia
Kansas
Boston
The Cars
The Cramps
Bob Dylan
Frijid Pink
The Byrds
Blues Magoos
Big Brother and the Holding Company / Janis Joplin
Stevie Nicks / Fleetwood Mac
Aretha Franklin
Heart
Misfits
The Runaways
The Sonics
Love
The Four Seasons
Sly and the Family Stone
Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
Bob Seger System / Silver Bullet Band
Montrose / Sammy Hagar
Deftones
Incubus
Filter
Pantera
Sonic Youth
Captain Beefheart
Steve Miller Band
The Allman Brother’s Band
Chicago
Steely Dan
Blondie
Styx
Journey
Green Day
No Doubt
Sublime
Marilyn Manson
Veruca Salt
Hole
The Offspring
Stone Temple Pilots
Mudhoney
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Rage Against The Machine
Jane’s Addiction
Smashing Pumpkins
The Ventures
Roy Head and the Traits
The Surfaris
Muddy Waters
Buddy Guy
Buddy Holly + The Crickets
Gene Vincent and the Blue Caps
B.B. King
Sorry, but it’s a little ridiculous to be ignoring all of these American musicians and bands from the 50s to the 90s to claim that British bands dominated rock music because some British bands were popular in the 70s.
This isn't really a topic I can get worked up over, and for the 60's and 70's I give British bands the advantage. But if you are going to extend your list of American bands past the 80's, how about doing that for British bands as well? (Oddly, you leave out what is probably my favorite American rock bands of the 80's, or possibly favorite rock band of the 80's overall: X.) I wasn't too enthusiastic about what was on offer musically from American bands in the 80's. Maybe that was just a matter of alienation from anything mainstream. Certainly I listened to an enormous amount of British post-punk at the time, but very little has held up for me. Still, I would say British rock comes out ahead of American rock of the 80's. Some examples:
XTC
Kate Bush [mostly not really rock, but you have been inconsistently including non-rock in your lists]
Siouxsie & the Banshees
Joy Division
Adam & the Ants
The Fall
The Raincoats
Gang of Four
Elvis Costello
The Smiths
Psychic TV
The English Beat
Roxy Music [did you include them on your list of 70's British bands?]
Public Image Limited
Throbbing Gristle
Killing Joke
The Psychedelic Furs
That's not that long of a list, but I find your list over-inflated with acts I can't take very seriously, such as Kansas and Styx. (Talk about bad taste!) If I were to add British bands of the 80's who were better than Kansas and Styx, I could extend this list. I am trying to limit it to bands/artists that I have produced a fair amount of music I can still stand by.
But if you want to compare British and American popular music of the 80's overall, I don't know. 80's R&B/disco/funk/electro/freestyle from the US might help America win that competition. Also, although I have soured on rap, obviously much of the world loves it, and it is clearly yet another home-grown American genre, one that came into focus in the 80's (even if it was around before then), with an undeniable explosion of energy and creativity.
I probably shouldn't comment on the 90's since I somehow don't click much with the 90's musically. I would probably give American rock the advantage though. Britpop seems overrated to me, and I have heard a fair amount of it.
I think most people (who think about it at all) recognize that America created the foundations for much of what has become popular music globally. I still personally think the British refined rock and took it to new places in a way that surpassed what American rock bands did overall (in the 60's and 70's). The early rock of the 50's and early 60's seems very limited to me.
But--whatever. You care more about all of this than I do. I am more interested in finding new music I like than in analyzing the discourse around music.
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