Is it just me, or does it seem that there's a pro-British/anti-American theme in a lot of Rock music discourse? (bands, heavy metal)

[blanketstate]

This post is inspired by a series of Reddit threads I came across tonight-

I've seen a number of Internet posts (on Reddit, Quora, etc) in which people seem to aggressively downplay American musical innovation post the 1950s, particularly in Rock music.

This often begins with people musing about the success of a number of British bands in the 60s and 70s, and then claiming things that just aren't true, ie: "the lack of activity in the American music scene" during that time period - in a seeming desire to put down or outdo American culture. But...there wasn't a lack of activity in rock and popular music in the US post 1960?

I've heard people claim that rock music was not found in the US in the early 1960s, and it was the Beatles and the British invasion that came along to revive it. "Why was there no similar flourishing of activity in the American scene at the time"...Really? Genres today known as Experimental rock, Instrumental rock, Jazz fusion, Surf rock, Rhythm and Blues, Pop rock, and Garage rock all existed pre-Beatles in America, with artists ranging from The Kingsmen to The Surfaris to The Ventures to the Scholars, Roy Head and the Traits, and The Beach Boys...

People seem to arbitrarily overvalue and overemphasize the importance and originality of British bands like Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, The Who, or The Rolling Stones, while often mean-spiritedly and arbitrarily dismissing, undermining, or ignoring popular American acts of the time like Jimi Hendrix, The Doors, Jefferson Airplane, Creedence Clearwater Revival, ZZ Top, The Stooges, Aerosmith, Alice Cooper, Funkadelic, The Eagles, The Velvet Underground, The Byrds, Blue Oyster Cult, Janis Joplin, Van Halen, The New York Dolls, etc... The inclusion of hundreds of British acts of any size in various discussions of rock music in the 60s, 70s, and 80s seems a little unfair when 1,000s of American artists, even in subgenres with acknowledged American influence, are left to be discounted or completely unmentioned and unlisted, leaving the much larger and more original American music market wildly underrepresented.

You can't really reconcile the Anglophilic claims made as to the British overperformance/American underperformance in Rock music with easily accessible information about the music of this time period - you can access lists of major bands and musicians (via Discogs, Allmusic, YouTube, Wikipedia/Wikia pages, Billboard charts) performing in pretty much any given genre of music during the 60s and 70s, and the great majority of the bands and musicians listed will almost invariably be American, including a majority of the earliest influences in major genres like Punk, Heavy Metal, Psychedelic rock, Art rock and Progressive rock, Garage rock, Folk rock, Blues rock, Hard rock, you name it. The predominance of American rock bands and musicians is a reality backed by easily accessible information, and yet it's a reality that I often see completely ignored - because another country produced a handful of very popular rock bands...is that not unfair?

And lately, I've noticed a rise in hostility to the concept of larger American musical influence in the 1990s, mostly among fans of "Britpop", which is itself a "music movement" coined by British media to compete with American musical output during the 90s - which was one-sidedly and openly hostile to Americanism in music media.

What is this aggressive anti-Americanism/pro-Britishism in rock music discourse attributable to? Is it just because American cultural output and influence is seen as normative, and American bands and musicians are thus taken for granted?

It seems there's this constant narrative of British revisionism online, that often leads to the arbitrary exclusion of many quite famous or influential American bands and musicians from discussions of rock music's development post-1960.

There's often a certain amount of anti-American cultural insecurity, appropriation, and elitist gatekeeping that seems to be involved in this kind of thing - Rock music is highly valued as smart and complex, and so that's something Eurocentrists are jealous enough of to want to appropriate - imagine if Americans took credit for orchestral music because of our developments in the space from the late 19th century. No one would stand for it! But they'll give us Country music, or something, because it's seen as simple, provincial, and dumb. I even saw someone say "America has never produced music as important as Europe" while arguing why he always privileges British artists like The Beatles over American ones. That's just so outrageously arrogant, eurocentric, appropriationist, and arbitrary to me.

Is it Europe's bruised cultural ego and Britain's empire complex that influenced this kind of cultural inferiority/superiority complex over music in the American century?

[blanketstate]

No replies? I’d like to hear some thoughts…

[Milky Way Resident]

Music takes inspiration from many different sources. That might sound like a generic answer, but it ultimately means that rock was subject to influences that come from all over the place, he that other musical genres or countries. British bands from the 60’s were influenced by American blues artists, while they in turn influenced American acts.

Personally speaking, when it comes to the 60’s, I prefer the big American names like The Doors, Jefferson Airplane and Hendrix to the iconic British acts of The Beatles, The Rolling Stones and The Who. When we move to the 70’s, I’d go for the British bands like Led Zeppelin, Queen, Black Sabbath over American contemporaries like KISS and Aerosmith, who I also enjoy very much.

If I really had to pick one country out of the two ( not something I like), I’d say that Britain produced the more iconic bands, but that’s open to interpretation.

[MalaMan]

Personally I prefer the British rock bands. No offense.

[SnazzyB]

The British Invasion were bands that relied on American Blues Artists, often stealing their music, so it goes back to American music.

But the BIG rock bands and acts were British. If you were to create a diagram of Rock n Roll hierarchy...British bands would be at the top.

[D217]

Originally Posted by blanketstate

Is it Europe's bruised cultural ego and Britain's empire complex that influenced this kind of cultural inferiority/superiority complex over music in the American century?

It's probably because that's really all they have left to hold onto as far as music is concerned, their old classic rock.



USA rules every other genre, imo (and rock, too, but I am admittedly biased.)

[SnazzyB]

Originally Posted by D217

It's probably because that's really all they have left to hold onto as far as music is concerned, their old classic rock.



USA rules every other genre, imo (and rock, too, but I am admittedly biased.)

There's probably a lot of truth in this. People arguing in a forum about who is best...probably that's what it comes down to. Sure, back in the 60's and 70's, they ruled. But it's not the case anymore.

[GTB365]

Originally Posted by SnazzyB

There's probably a lot of truth in this. People arguing in a forum about who is best...probably that's what it comes down to. Sure, back in the 60's and 70's, they ruled. But it's not the case anymore.

They definitely ruled back in the 60s and 70s....

The Beatles
The Rolling Stones
Led Zeppelin
The Who
Pink Floyd
Queen
Elton John
David Bowie
Cat Stevens
Black Sabbath
Deep Purple
Yes
Genesis
Cream
Humble Pie

In the 60s, even Jimi Hendrix had to launch his music career from England...
with 2 British dudes helping him out...Mitch Mitchell on drums and Noel Redding on bass.
The Jimi Hendix Experience

Good music is good music ...don't care where it comes from....
AC/DC....Australia
The Scorpions...Germany
Rush....Canada
U2.....Ireland

There were great america bands, solo performers ....

The Doors
Alice Cooper
Iron Butterfly
Jefferson Airplane
Boston
Cheap Trick
CSN&Y
The Grateful Dead
The Allman Brothers
James Taylor
Kiss
Aerosmith
Ted Nugent
Grand Funk
Spirit

They were good but maybe not quite on the level of the best Briitish bands...

[malcorub16]

Yet, in the 90s and early 2000's the only Brits I can think of are Muse, Radio Head, Oasis, Bush and Cold Play, maybe Artic Monkeys but I don't seem to remember them until after 2010. And for along time I thought The Strokes were British but I was wrong. hahaha

Americans definitely dominated rock in the 90s and 2000s.

[OTownDays]

Nothing new there.

There's something very "hipster cat meme" about the pro-this country vs anti-that country rhetoric. The UK had some early heavy metal (heavily influenced by Jimi Hendrix's stay in England), then the ska and punk era (in tandem with the punk style of the New York Dolls, Iggy Pop, and Ramones, etc., from late 60s to early 70s), followed by a lot of small label indie stuff in the 90s (not that innovative, that was also common in the U.S. by late 70s).

In the 90s I went out with a guy from the UK who was really insufferable with the "UK indie bands are the world's best" stuff. UK has never been able to hold a candle to the musical diversity in the U.S. Took years for me to stop having nightmares about that guy's horrible music ranting...