Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Good. The EPA unfairly restricts economic activity; you can't even build a building on a perfectly safe, dry piece of ground without having to file an Environmental Impact Statement that can take a year or more to approve.
It's about time someone put a leash on them.
Very entertaining. When is your next work of fiction coming out?
Spotted owl is not really endangered and it lives just fine in new forest. It was a political lie that the owl can only survive in old growth. They live in all sorts of forest.
Even with logging, there is plenty of forest left for owls. Proper logging helps to reduce forest fires, which is beneficial to owls.
Maybe you can give up on this one and find something else to be outraged about.
Yes, forest fires are not likely in an area that's been clear cut, because, well, there's no forest any longer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts
Good. The EPA unfairly restricts economic activity; you can't even build a building on a perfectly safe, dry piece of ground without having to file an Environmental Impact Statement that can take a year or more to approve.
Yes, forest fires are not likely in an area that's been clear cut, because, well, there's no forest any longer.
Not all timber culls are clear cut, or wide swath clear cuts. There are different approaches depending on the area. USFS has a ton of info on this. There's lot's of upside to thinning and harvesting a forest. However clear cutting is a valuable tool to establish certain areas to promote specific goals- back in WV grouse habitat was disappearing- so setting up areas of clear cut in and amongst select cut forest is beneficial.
Grouse are creatures of the forest, but they thrive best in a specific type of forest — one in which trees are starting to grow back after large trees have been cut. “Early successional habitat,” biologists call it, and 40 years ago West Virginia had plenty of it, and plenty of grouse, too.
That isn’t the case nowadays. Mature forests cover nearly 80 percent of the state. As the forests have grown up, grouse numbers have spiraled down.
I live on a little chunk of paradise- a lot wooded with Ponderosa, juniper, sage and native grasses. We have to thin our trees to a recommended distance between crowns to discourage fire 'crowning'. Also removing large junipers next to pine trees- junipers are a fire accelerant. We're not removing all of it- just thinning. We'll leave about a half acre of immature pine thicket - like an island, for winter shelter for animals. I'm all for managing to achieve a desired result.
Spotted owl is not really endangered and it lives just fine in new forest. It was a political lie that the owl can only survive in old growth. They live in all sorts of forest.
Even with logging, there is plenty of forest left for owls. Proper logging helps to reduce forest fires, which is beneficial to owls.
Maybe you can give up on this one and find something else to be outraged about.
X10
that Spotted Owl "lie" costs thousands upon thousands of jobs, crushed major lumber related
industries, and shrank supply which dramatically increased prices to consumers.
Good. The EPA unfairly restricts economic activity; you can't even build a building on a perfectly safe, dry piece of ground without having to file an Environmental Impact Statement that can take a year or more to approve.
It's about time someone put a leash on them.
The EPA overall is one of the most important agencies in our Federal government that has done far more to encourage and expand industry that suppress it. Before the EPA we were continuously destroying our environment in a non-sustainable way, as well as polluting and wasting our natural resources - air and water - at an alarming rate.
Trump didn't make any effort to find the onerous rules and improve those - he went in with a sledge hammer and began tearing apart the agency, just because he could; and because it was great opportunity to fire up the supporters who bought into the propaganda that environmental protection is "bad".
Location: Unlike most on CD, I'm not afraid to give my location: Milwaukee, WI.
1,790 posts, read 4,155,161 times
Reputation: 4093
OMG! No Spotted Owls?! How would the world survive such a calamity.
If only the people so worried about animals and their "rights" would care as much about humans (i.e. babies lives being terminated). But I know from experience the vast majority of environmental and animal activists are pro-choice when it comes to human life. Not saying all, but MOST.
OMG! No Spotted Owls?! How would the world survive such a calamity.
If only the people so worried about animals and their "rights" would care as much about humans (i.e. babies lives being terminated). But I know from experience the vast majority of environmental and animal activists are pro-choice when it comes to human life. Not saying all, but MOST.
Shameful.
Like many people you've missed the point about the owl's "importance". The spotted owl was a poster child, a bellwether, a figurehead representing a specific type of forest habitat. Those old forests have other functions and values besides timber or owls. Such as carbon sequestration. Regulating climate and storing precipitation, on and on. If no one had nominated the owl to represent this commercially valuable, poorly managed, rapidly dwindling forest type, they could have nominated one of the multiple other species at risk from habitat loss. Other birds including the marbled murrelet, salamanders, small mammals including shrews, beetles, vascular and non-vascular plants, fungi. They were all just waiting to be tapped on their little head or whatever they have that passes for a head.
Owls are pretty charismatic, plus their behavior and biology had actually been studied for decades (partly because of the westward expansion of barred owls and concerns over hybridizing) so there was real live data available to meet T&E listing criteria and support the listing proposal. Take it from someone who actually worked on the USFWS listing proposal, the critical habitat listing proposal, and worked to coordinate the various research projects and recovery actions. The more you study something the more you learn. The more habitats you search for owls and evaluate for suitability the more you're likely to find. Find more? Fandangtastic. If those little scattered pocket populations can't meet and mingle, they won't help the bigger problem. Don't get me started on genetics. At the time listing and recovery actions were in play there was no DNA sequencing available.
Science isn't static. Knowledge isn't static. Which means laws based on knowledge can't be static. You don't know what you don't know. Even if you do know, more questions pop up. Gnarly ones too. Which is why every T&E species status is re-visited periodically assuming the USFWS gets Congressional funding to do it. No money, no re-evaluation. If you don't fund some agency you don't like, the work you demand doesn't happen. The thorn in your side just sits there bothering you. IF the species has been found to meet its viable population/genetic goals its protection status will change. IF it hasn't, it won't. IF more suitable habitat that supports a reproducing population of owls is found, the critical habitat designation will also change. Or NOT!
Last edited by Parnassia; 01-16-2021 at 02:32 PM..
Spotted owl is not really endangered and it lives just fine in new forest. It was a political lie that the owl can only survive in old growth. They live in all sorts of forest.
Even with logging, there is plenty of forest left for owls. Proper logging helps to reduce forest fires, which is beneficial to owls.
Maybe you can give up on this one and find something else to be outraged about.
I heard Donald Trump say that the way to prevent Forest Fires was to rake the forest floor. Gee, he is so smart, isn’t he? LOL. TRUMP IS A GIANT FOOL.
OMG! No Spotted Owls?! How would the world survive such a calamity.
If only the people so worried about animals and their "rights" would care as much about humans (i.e. babies lives being terminated). But I know from experience the vast majority of environmental and animal activists are pro-choice when it comes to human life. Not saying all, but MOST.
Shameful.
Red herring. Next!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
