Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This is a lake, right? I would be happy to personally pay for and install a swim-safety sign in English, French, German, Italian, Urdu, and flipping Martian if it would save one child's life.
You know, in the case of this sign, it seems that people are missing a couple of important points.
First, regarding signage and language: so don't post a sign in a second language which only one group will understand and no other, post a sign in English with the International Symbol with it! geez, there IS a symbol for no swimming. You don't have to read ANY language to understand the big red 'not allowed' circle & slash over a pictograph of a person in water. Maybe even the intelligent ones would catch on that the English phrase with it means not to do what the pic is showing (aka: facilitate reading the language).
Second: Just because the people in question responded to the officer in English (good for them for learning to speak, I hope they bother to learn someone understandable - can't understand a lot of the immigrants who barely try English down here. Our state comptroller got into trouble for commenting on it), doesn't mean they can read English. Reading and speaking are two separate skills.
Third: It sounds more like a 'cultural clash' of they knew perfectly well they were misbehaving in the park (loud music, too noisy, etc) but it was their right to behave anyway they wanted. <sigh>. Reminds me of a 'Tolerance' seminar my husband had to take when he became a manager: that he was to understand and not chide members of certain cultures for always being late to meetings, because in their culture they are to be friendly with anyone also of their culture, and they may have been caught on the way too the meeting and were chatting (being friendly) with 1 or more people. Can you believe it?! People being excused from rude behavior based on ethnicity? but I see it all the time.
Your ancestors and mine (Unless they came from the UK or some other English speaking area) HAD no choice and HAD to learn English and in the long run, it was better for all of them.
Yup. When my father's Jewish great?-grandparents came over from Poland or Austria (family argues over this), they claimed there were 3 things that they needed to do as soon as possible: 1)get a job 2)learn English 3)don't be Jewish. Now, I know that last one is a bit... odd, and the family did immediately stop being Jewish religiously (they didn't take anything else up, they just weren't Jewish).. but at the times I think there was a lot of bias happening and they felt it was better to not do that.
But, I find it important that the first two things they felt were extremely necessary was to get a job and learn the language! Same as I'd feel if we moved to Spain or Norway or Turkey.
because if you cater to people too much then they will become lazy
i.e. if we put signs in other languages, then why would they feel the need to learn english, they don't
if you had everything in english then they would have to learn the language to get by
I know when I go abroad it becomes frustrating that i can't speak the language so what do I do I try and learn the quick basics .
There;s a guy from puerto rico he used to live in california then moved to florida I asked his son how long has his dad lived in america and he said 15 years and his mum.
15 years and can't speak a word of english.
so I asked his son why he can't speak english and he told me that he never needed to as everyone spoke spanish where he was in california
Its rather sad that some "helpful" suggestions to make situations work out, seem to turn into catering, babying, and spoiling people. What I mean is-the sign in Spanish is a "helpful" suggestion to alleviate the problem mentioned. However, it's not the answer for me.
In my humble opinion, we are way too "nice" as a country when it comes to integrating. However, we are evolving, maybe? Changing, our culture keeps spinning as technology changes and evolves, society changes to adapt with it. Those of us who hold the ideals of the "old ways", morals and values are faced with issues like this one-in an ever changing world.
Because of how I was raised, my first reaction would be simply to say don't change the sign. How would I feel as a foreigner in another country? I personally wouldn't party like its the end of the age at a beach and trash it. I'm rather nervous combined with wonder when I visit "someone else's country". But that's just me. If there are people abusing and taking advantage of that countries resources, establishments, or even environments-well there is only one thing to do. Teach them a lesson as to not let them forget that we DON'T TOLLERATE THAT BEHAVIOR. Send a message. Don't bend, don't yield, because its easier. That looks like laziness on our part. And don't you dare take my already taxed paycheck of minimum wage to pay for a sign that says no loud music. If I am going to submit one dollar from my already depressed check each week, please America let it be this sign.
"Common sense: Use it."
I had an experience in Texas I wanted to share with you. You all know there are more Hispanics in some towns there than Caucasians. Well, I didn't attend their meetings, or get involved in their groups, but I did however, enjoy buying churitzo in their markets and I had to use our local laundry mat, which happened to be now in the "Hispanic" part of town. Quite a few workers, males, Hispanic, were washing clothes. I, being a young lady, and kinda curvy (LOL) walked in and did my laundry. I'm leading up to the part where they heckled me and spoke amongst themselves.
When I finished my laundry, an hour or so later, I turned to them and smiled. I also spoke fluent Spanish to them and said politely that in my country, that is not very nice. They applauded me and laughed. I had to laugh too, just because my nervousness was at an end here. They were saying rather terrible things, things they don't teach you in Spanish 101. I let them know that day that I was a little different than the rest of the gals they had heckled. I spoke their language. And I was intolerant. I visited again that laundromat, and only two men were there I recognized from before. They waved, smiled, chuckled, but did not utter one word in any language while I was there. I turned leaving and said thank you. One man said, in English, "you Welcome."
I do get mad-I don't like to see this happening, and I don't agree with this much forced immigration. I'm not even against immigration, just the explosion of it faster than our country can adapt. We will eventually run out of room. I have watched the video about how it is going to hurt us and our country in the long run, and how it doesn't help one bit the countries they left. However, underneath the angry, I guess I'm a humanist? I relate to people when I have to, maybe its a self kicking in instinct. And maybe if I have to pay one stupid dollar I don't have towards something, it wouldn't even be to teach them English. I learned in a free public school spanish because I wanted to. And I'm glad I did because for one minute, I got to really stick it to some hecklers and by golly that felt great.
If I had to pay just one stupid dollar, it would be to get a message across. One they would most likely not forget. I did it without threat or even brute force or angriness. I did it, with common sense combined with creativity. And luckily it worked.
Absolutely! I seem to be seeing less and less of it around. I saw one mother in the grocery parking lot look both ways before stepping out into the roadway, saw a couple of cars and yelled to her son to stop (who did listen); but at no time did either of her two kids actually bother to look for traffic along with her! So while she knows about safety, apparently the kids aren't bothering. great.
I know what you mean about your laundromat story. I had a friend who lived in France a while, and spoke fluent French. She was walking with an American friend in a park and overheard some local say something in French about them. While the friend had no clue, she smiled sweetly and fired back in fluent French about how rude they were and how they shouldn't make assumptions. I'm glad in your case, that upon returns to the laundromat your proving yourself got them (at least some) to change their behavior at least towards you.
My very liberal friends keep insisting that we shouldn't have any immigration laws and anyone who wants to should be able to come here and live. They seem to think that we have lots of space available for living. Unfortunately that's not where people are going to live. They are coming to the already settled areas (well, they have some smarts!) with lots of services and amenities. Where it's crowded and they make it more crowded.
There was a time when there were no laws, but that time is gone, and now there are. It's not like we're the only country to try to slow down immigration, and in some ways we're easier - we don't require that you have to have a certain amount in the bank, in local currency, to move here as some countries do. Maybe we should!
Where did you get the idea that this was about safety of a child?
Is there more information that you have regarding this event in Merrimack? If so, please post it here.
Well, I think it is simplistic to assume the parks director made the Spanish sign request for only the drinking and unsociable aspects that have received press focus. Simplistic and politically suicidal. Why not just have the police issue citations/fines just like they would for the underage teens that party on NH lakes? No, perhaps the director also noted that children were present with adults who claimed not to be able to read English. Perhaps out of fear for those children (or fear of a negligence lawsuit), a request was made to have all rules, or just safety-related rules posted in Spanish.
Quote:
And as for your comment, that people are "in fear" of losing the English language to some other language. Please read my previous post, it explains clearly that there is the possibility of a degeneration of our society if a common language is not shared.
Its a fair opinion. However, I do think there are necessary concessions to immigrants that do not jeopardize the common tongue. I agree with the poster who pointed out that learning the spoken portion of a language is one thing, literacy in that language is another. Heaven knows, an embarrassingly large number of natural-born citizens are illiterate.
Heaven knows, an embarrassingly large number of natural-born citizens are illiterate.
I'm sorry but this brought a smile to my face as I thought of an incident
I was talking to an elderly lady well not that old anyway and we talk about politics(I love to hear others opinions)
Now we get on to the subject of the next election and I asked her who would you vote for
her- clinton
me- why(just wondering where she was coming from)
her- well she stuck with her husband
me- ok but lets say this if I did that to your daughter would you want her to still stay with me
her- well if you loved her yes
me- if I did then I wouldn't have done it
her- well well well she has a nice personality
have no idea why I shared that but it still malkes me sort of cry /laugh
anyway this lady is my mother in law from quincy massachusetts
Well, I think it is simplistic to assume the parks director made the Spanish sign request for only the drinking and unsociable aspects that have received press focus. Simplistic and politically suicidal. Why not just have the police issue citations/fines just like they would for the underage teens that party on NH lakes? No, perhaps the director also noted that children were present with adults who claimed not to be able to read English. Perhaps out of fear for those children (or fear of a negligence lawsuit), a request was made to have all rules, or just safety-related rules posted in Spanish.
Its a fair opinion. However, I do think there are necessary concessions to immigrants that do not jeopardize the common tongue. I agree with the poster who pointed out that learning the spoken portion of a language is one thing, literacy in that language is another. Heaven knows, an embarrassingly large number of natural-born citizens are illiterate.
You are certainly right about the politicos fear of liability. That may be their deciding factor, unfortunately. Hopefully, the law abiding citizens of Merrimack will make their voices heard in this matter.
However, I don't believe we should make concessions to any one particular ethnic group. Why start now? Millions of immigrants landed on these shores and were not given any concessions. They managed somehow to be law abiding citizens and grow in their knowledge of the English language.
In my humble opinion, it's the continued "dummying down" of our society. It's reminicent of the Ebonics craze, where students were taught lessons in a deviation from the proper English language. Did teaching inner city youth in Ebonics spur better educational performance? No, in fact, it retarded their growth in the English language and undermined their transition into the society at large. So, what are we saying here? Hector or Jose, is too stupid to learn the English language, so lets make it easier for him by making everything in Spanish for him? I think the Hectors and Jose of our country have the unlimited potential, as well as, the opportunities to learn both spoken and written English.
Just my 2 copper....symbolic signs are the way to go for the town of Merrimack.
Like the couple overheard in an elevator speaking to each other in Vietnamese and the other guy in the elevator says, "don't you know this is America - speak spanish."
last saturday I was in a small market in west Manchester and the people were speaking , I guess, Polish. The signs were in dollars and some of the can lables were in cryllic?
Public signs in public places should be in English. Public school should be in English. The Law should be in English. If you want to speak spanish, go to someplace that speaks spanish and I do not mean southern California.
I live in Merrimack.
The park in question is not a big place, it isn't easy to find if you don't know about it. You would HAVE to read the ENGLISH signs in town to find it. There are no signs from the highway about the park.
One point made was many of these people at the park are not even from NH.
There is also NO FEE to enter the park, so it is our tax money that pays for the life-guards, cleaning, etc.
The lame argument about not being able to read an English sign about the park rules is stupid. You can't speed or shoplift just because you can't read the sign.
I have already contacted our town council about doing the right thing and not wasting any more of our tax money. Our property taxes in this town are nuts already!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
