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Some of the more salient points from the following which is but one of many such college education revelations out there.. Look you want a degree..fine..go for.. if it profit's you intellectually, spiritually, financially great! But stop expecting others to foot the bill.. what in the world is so hard to understand about such a simple common sense thing like that?
Forbes Welcome
Consider the following statistics: More than half of Americans under the age of 25 who have a bachelor’s degree are either unemployed or underemployed. According to The Christian Science Monitor, nearly 1 percent of bartenders and 14 percent of parking lot attendants have a bachelor’s degree.
Adding additional degrees is no guarantee of employment either. According to a recent Urban Institute report, nearly 300,000 Americans with master’s degrees and over 30,000 with doctorates are on public relief.
That Forbes article is from 2012, so it was based on data from the pits of the Great Depression. Good try, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyDave
President Obama said in this year’s State of the Union Address that he wanted larger numbers of people to attend college, but the grim fact is that colleges and universities continue to crank out too many degrees for which there is no need. Every year we award diplomas in economics, sociology, political science, English, history, law, etc., far beyond the market demand for those degrees.
Perhaps the most egregious example of this is the field of psychology, which is perennially one of the most popular undergraduate majors. In a recent year, over 80,000 Americans received a bachelor’s degree in psychology and slightly over 100,000 received a B.A. in education. Preparing 100,000 new teachers a year seems plausible, but does the U.S. job market really need four people trained in psychology for every five trained to be teachers?
So, let me guess, you think that working a "Do you want fries with that?" job is a better career strategy for millions of Americans than going to college and majoring in history or psychology and learning to think, speak well, write well, and numerous other general skills that lead to professional employment in numerous fields like sales, human resources, administration, etc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyDave
Why do colleges do this? It’s simple: They are businesses. Yes, even though many college professors look down their noses at profit-seeking businesses and demean business persons as money-grubbing vultures, the fact is that colleges need customers (students) and revenues just as badly as do other types of business.
Not only may you pay big bucks to acquire a degree that won’t land you a job, but the odds are that some of your money will also be wasted on instruction in learned quackery. Stultifying political correctness, ideological indoctrination, esoteric and fantastic theories, and blatant political propagandizing are common perversions of higher education in America today.
ROTFLMAO!!! The manifesto of the anti-intellectual po'd because most college educated people don't worship his own reactionary economic and social policies.
NH is fine the way it is. There are five other New England states to choose from if you don't like it, go there.
I guess that's OK if you want a 20th century economy in this state. Investment in education is similar to investment in infrastructure in that employers look for an educated workforce and good infrastructure.
Dave, I will agree that too little time is spent on researching career opportunities and viability of various degrees. Students waste money pursuing degrees in fields where supply outpaces demand. Art History, Psychology, etc are good examples. I picked degrees that led to jobs in demand and augmented my military technical and leadership experience.
Perhaps state and federal financial aid should be targeted more to degrees in demand in fields that are growing. I don't know many engineers without degrees or IT guys who regret getting a 2 or 4 year degree.
To paint the picture that most degrees are useless is a broad generalization. Some degrees are useless for sure, or lead to low paying careers in oversaturated job markets. Parents need to guide their kids to make realistic choices and set realistic expectations. Following your dreams doesn't pay the bills.
I agree that there has been a bit too much emphasis on higher education. Careers in the trade fields should be treated with as much importance. Our economy cannot exist solely on white collar jobs. Not every young person is a scholar and we shouldn't scoff at pointing them toward opportunities such as the building industry or national security. And yes, there are degrees where the market is saturated and it will take many years of working to pay of the student debt. That might be worth it to the student on a personal level, but the tax payer might have a different opinion if they are forced to pay that bill.
I do find it fascinating how much the cost of higher education has risen in my lifetime. I think it would be a tough argument to make that colleges are providing their students a much better education than what my parents were afforded. What has changed?
That Forbes article is from 2012, so it was based on data from the pits of the Great Depression. Good try, though.
So, let me guess, you think that working a "Do you want fries with that?" job is a better career strategy for millions of Americans than going to college and majoring in history or psychology and learning to think, speak well, write well, and numerous other general skills that lead to professional employment in numerous fields like sales, human resources, administration, etc?
ROTFLMAO!!! The manifesto of the anti-intellectual po'd because most college educated people don't worship his own reactionary economic and social policies.
Uh no the data isn't from the great depression.. nice try though
And no I am all for people getting good jobs but the facts are degrees are a waste for most people for many reasons, largely is the fact is there is no market for what many study.. and I realize it is a novel notion but people don't need college to read or write or do math.. imagine that!
as to your last one.. what is taught in college is reactionary economically and socially and in the real world has been shown to fail time and time again.. Think Greece .. but hey, opinions differ I have no problem allowing you to be wrong.
NH is fine the way it is. There are five other New England states to choose from if you don't like it, go there.
Or even better why don't you go to another state that under values education. Some people like there states to strive to be a great state not just meh....
I agree that there has been a bit too much emphasis on higher education. Careers in the trade fields should be treated with as much importance. Our economy cannot exist solely on white collar jobs. Not every young person is a scholar and we shouldn't scoff at pointing them toward opportunities such as the building industry or national security. And yes, there are degrees where the market is saturated and it will take many years of working to pay of the student debt. That might be worth it to the student on a personal level, but the tax payer might have a different opinion if they are forced to pay that bill.
I do find it fascinating how much the cost of higher education has risen in my lifetime. I think it would be a tough argument to make that colleges are providing their students a much better education than what my parents were afforded. What has changed?
The problem with careers in trades is that workers spend years working at minimum wage or a little bit better before they can qualify to make decent money, and even then, since most trade people work for small businesses that don't offer health care or 401ks or sick days. Many construction trade jobs are seasonal unless workers are willing to relocate for part of the year. Furthermore, technology changes too fast to spend 10 years learning how to do a job one way ... and automation is doing the same thing to the trades that it did to manufacturing: eliminating jobs. There was a recent news report about a robotic brick laying machine being used in a major construction project.
There are three major reasons for why college costs have soared:
prices in general have risen
college students expect more amenities: better dorms, nicer dining halls with better menus, first class athletic facilities even for non-athletes, etc.
state support of public universities has significantly declined; most states in the 1970s picked up all the costs of their state university systems whereas now tuition is a major revenue source.
Uh no the data isn't from the great depression.. nice try though
And no I am all for people getting good jobs but the facts are degrees are a waste for most people for many reasons, largely is the fact is there is no market for what many study.. and I realize it is a novel notion but people don't need college to read or write or do math.. imagine that!
as to your last one.. what is taught in college is reactionary economically and socially and in the real world has been shown to fail time and time again.. Think Greece .. but hey, opinions differ I have no problem allowing you to be wrong.
The Great Depression and the Great Recession were two different events that happened about 80 years apart. The Great Depression occurred between 1929 and 1940. The Great Recession occurred between 2008 and 2011. The Forbes article you quoted was published in 2012. Since statistics tend to lag by about 12 to 18 months, the numbers they used were gathered some time in 2010 or 2011.
Your ignorance of how to evaluate the article you presented as "evidence" demonstrates exactly why many employers only hire college grads. They want employees who can think and evaluate information for themselves not just repeat what somebody else has told them.
The Great Depression and the Great Recession were two different events that happened about 80 years apart. The Great Depression occurred between 1929 and 1940. The Great Recession occurred between 2008 and 2011. The Forbes article you quoted was published in 2012. Since statistics tend to lag by about 12 to 18 months, the numbers they used were gathered some time in 2010 or 2011.
Your ignorance of how to evaluate the article you presented as "evidence" demonstrates exactly why many employers only hire college grads. They want employees who can think and evaluate information for themselves not just repeat what somebody else has told them.
That Forbes article is from 2012, so it was based on data from the pits of the Great Depression. Good try, though. ..your words
That Forbes article is from 2012, so it was based on data from the pits of the Great Depression. Good try, though. ..your words
I think she might have meant "Great Recession" instead of Great Depression and wrote the wrong one.
Nice graphic, Dave. As usual, you've taken the most pessimistic view of a subject when in fact the truth is probably somewhere in between. Not everyone that gets a college degree is unable to get a job. I work with students all the time that graduate with meaningful degrees and use them to switch careers or advance in their current career. Despite what you say, there are many professions that require or value a college degree, whether it be 2 or 4 year. You seem to be focusing in on the plight of some college graduates who guessed the job market wrong or knowingly chose degrees that would get them nowhere financially. You then use these examples to paint a broad brush stroke and imply that most degrees are useless. Some of these students would be unsuccessful no matter what they did - there is an individual element to it too.
To get this thread back to NH, I like what the Community College System of NH is doing with their targeting degrees in areas like Advanced Manufacturing. They are 2-year degrees and shorter certificate programs that prepare NH students for in-demand jobs in NH in growing fields. They lead to meaningful careers that pay above average wages.
This partnership brings good paying jobs to NH. College is more than just a 4-year degree these days. There are many ways to gain skills - this is one piece of the picture. Not everyone needs a college degree but I'd venture to say that a high school diploma will increasingly be not enough for tomorrow's jobs.
But hey, the Dollar Store is hiring for $8 per hour so what the heck....
Right.
Here I am once again to remind you all to behave like you're not 12. This isn't a war you need to win, it's a discussion of facts and opinions. It is ok to disagree. It is ok to see things in a different light. It is not ok to get personal because someone else has a different opinion, therefore you feel superior because you're right and they are wrong.
Let me make it as clear as I can: discuss the topic, not each other. Getting personal will earn you an infraction.
Yac.
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Good try, though. 
