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All of the houses that I'm finding recently are electric baseboard heat. While I love the granularity of the control, I don't like being subject to electric prices. I had a few thoughts to get around this:
- Install a couple could climate heat pumps in common areas. It seems with the new technology that these don't drop off their efficiency until < 5 degrees F. While I would technically still rely on electric heat, it seems to be much more efficient. See: You wouldn't believe the things we do. - Heat Pump Technology - Mitsubishi Electric
- Keep the electric baseboards in the bedrooms for granular control. We usually keep the temperature lower at night anyways, so I don't think we'd break the bank here.
- For super cold nights, we'd continue to run the heat pump and the electric baseboards. A lot of the houses have chimneys, so I'd plan on utilizing some sort of a wood burning stove insert as well if possible. Again, this would only be for the coldest of nights (< 0 degrees F).
- Eventually consider solar if it makes sense. This would allow us to capture electricity for heating/cooling during the day and reduce our needs in the evening. Geothermal is also an option too. Both of these only seem to make sense if we know for a fact that we are staying in one place for a long time. We're both still in our 20s, so a lot can change.
Does anyone have experience with using heat pumps? It seems like it might be an alternative to paying for plumbing for the whole house, as well as buying a furnace.
If you are in New Hampshire, a ground source heat pump (aka geothermal) makes sense. An air source, not so much. Passive solar would be good, but the house has to be designed for it, and its lot and orientation require an unobstructed southern view. A backup heat source is required for cloudy days.
Are you looking in an area with natural gas availability? That is your best heating option. I would not consider buying a house with electric baseboard heating. It is just too expensive in NH and bound to get even more expensive with the shutdown last December of the Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant that supplied a good deal of power to NH. Also pay attention to how well the houses are insulated: i.e 2X6 construction with the recommended insulation rating, thermopane windows and insulated doors.
I am not familiar with "cold climate" heat pumps. I do know that below 20° F, conventional heat pumps don't work well. The only type of heat pump that makes economic sense as previously noted is the geothermal ground source type, which equipment and installation are expensive. Installing ductwork in an older home, which would allow for a single outdoor compressor is super expensive.
If you do buy the house with electric baseboards, I would go with pellet stoves for supplemental heat. If you want air conditioning, get window units or wall units.
I have been not quite heating my small condominium with electricity for 30+ years. We refer to it as electric cold. I am still doing this because it never really made sense to switch to some thing else. We have not used the baseboard heat except in the bathrooms and then only to warm the rooms in the mornings for showers. We are fortunate to have about 12' of glass doors facing Southeast and the incoming sunlight does a pretty good job of warming the main room. Heavy curtains insulate these windows when the sun goes down. An old fashioned 100/200/300 large base incandescent lamp provides a lot of heat as well.
We keep the bedroom unheated and use an electric blanket under a down comforter to keep us warm. We also use a 1200 W radiant heater in the living room to heat us when we are there. The basement laundry room where most of the plumbing lives is heated by incandescent lamps to keep the pipes from freezing. Waste heat from the electric water heater and a full size freezer also help to heat the basement but not very much.
I do not think switching to propane to fuel more conventional heating systems would be worth the installation and fuel costs. If we had natural gas it would be a very different matter.
OP, I am not convinced that heat pumps work well at all here in New Hampshire. A colleague of mine had a geothermal system installed several years ago (for something like $20,000) and it never worked well. She had problems with it every winter -- the seller/installer kept coming back trying to fix things, then he went out of business. She had to have the system taken out and hot-water baseboards re-installed (the geothermal guy had removed them all ) at another huge cost.
Not sure about the Mitsubishi system you linked to. Sounds like it's a relatively new technology, and I would not want to be the first to use it.
Honestly, I would avoid houses with electric baseboard heat and no other heat source. The only exception would be if the house is set up in such a way that you could install a pellet (or wood) stove for a few thousand dollars and have that heat the house well, but so much depends on the house's layout, your willingness to leave interior doors open all night to keep heat circulating, etc. And even with that, you will have to add pellets (or wood) at least once a day, so it doesn't work well when you go on vacation.
I'm surprised that you're finding all houses with electric baseboard heat -- I thought they were pretty rare here because they are typically insanely expensive. I still remember having electric baseboard heat for an apartment I lived in in Portsmouth when I was in college -- the winter heating cost was literally as much as our rent some months, even when we kept the heat on something like 60 (I was freezing the whole winter -- we moved out as soon as our lease was up). Never again!!
I do not think switching to propane to fuel more conventional heating systems would be worth the installation and fuel costs. If we had natural gas it would be a very different matter.
Natural Gas service is rare in NH. I installed propane to get rid of my electric water heater and to power a generator.
Since I had the gasfitter onsite anyway, I added a direct vent propane-burning wall furnace as backup heat. A gravity wall furnace with a pilot light and millivolt thermostat will automatically maintain the temperature for as long as you have propane, even during a power outage.
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I am not familiar with "cold climate" heat pumps. I do know that below 20° F, conventional heat pumps don't work well. The only type of heat pump that makes economic sense as previously noted is the geothermal ground source type, which equipment and installation are expensive. Installing ductwork in an older home, which would allow for a single outdoor compressor is super expensive.
Heat pumps have improved considerably in recent years. They now work under 20° F (less efficiently, but still functional), and there are models where you run refrigerant hoses from several rooms to a single outdoor compressor, no need for ductwork.
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Eventually consider solar if it makes sense. This would allow us to capture electricity for heating/cooling during the day and reduce our needs in the evening. Geothermal is also an option too. Both of these only seem to make sense if we know for a fact that we are staying in one place for a long time. We're both still in our 20s, so a lot can change.
Solar systems with battery storage are expensive, battery useful lifespan is relatively short. Another approach is a thermal energy storage unit, as seen on the latest episode of Ask This Old House.
Not sure about the Mitsubishi system you linked to. Sounds like it's a relatively new technology, and I would not want to be the first to use it.
They are only newer here in the US. They have been used for a long time in Europe and Asia. They are much more efficient, even at 5 degrees, than electric baseboard heating. The rating to look at is the COP, or coefficient of performance. Electric resistance heat has a COP of 1, which means that 1 unit of energy input is converted to 1 unit of energy output. This Mitsubishi air source heat pump (mini-split) has a COP of 3 at 17 degrees, meaning it's 3 times more efficient than baseboard electric. COP at zero degrees is probably more like 2.
Best thing about it is that not only do you have heat in the winter, you have A/C in the summer. Pair this with a wood or pellet stove for those really cold nights and you're in business. I would not hesitate to buy one of these. When solar electric further drops in price and fossil fuels skyrocket again, a mini-split will make even more sense as you can offset electric costs with the solar.
They are only newer here in the US. They have been used for a long time in Europe and Asia. They are much more efficient, even at 5 degrees, than electric baseboard heating. The rating to look at is the COP, or coefficient of performance. Electric resistance heat has a COP of 1, which means that 1 unit of energy input is converted to 1 unit of energy output. This Mitsubishi air source heat pump (mini-split) has a COP of 3 at 17 degrees, meaning it's 3 times more efficient than baseboard electric. COP at zero degrees is probably more like 2.
Best thing about it is that not only do you have heat in the winter, you have A/C in the summer. Pair this with a wood or pellet stove for those really cold nights and you're in business. I would not hesitate to buy one of these. When solar electric further drops in price and fossil fuels skyrocket again, a mini-split will make even more sense as you can offset electric costs with the solar.
I stand corrected, Steve. I do forget sometimes that "new" technologies in the U.S. have often been used in Europe and/or Asia for years.
You also have the Rinnai direct vent propane heaters as an option. That's been the standard retrofit for electric baseboard homes for 20+ years. I have quite a few friends who have them. They work well and they're fairly unobtrusive.
There are also direct vent heaters that run on home heating oil and kerosene.
Since I had the gasfitter onsite anyway, I added a direct vent propane-burning wall furnace as backup heat. A gravity wall furnace with a pilot light and millivolt thermostat will automatically maintain the temperature for as long as you have propane, even during a power outage.
Thank you.
I agree with this set up.
Very good heater. Wall unit.
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) at another huge cost.
Anything is better than resistive electric heat!
