Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Hampshire
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-18-2017, 08:19 AM
 
3,886 posts, read 3,504,464 times
Reputation: 5295

Advertisements

Historically, especially before the 1960s, unions were largely beneficial entities. In my MBA program many decades ago, we learned that industrial and craft unions actually benefited employers - union shops were largely more profitable and more productive due to union training and improved employee relations.

This mutual bargain, IMHO, has largely broken down as unions these days seem to be much more about job protection, unnecessarily narrow job descriptions and such. Public employee unions are the worst. (and public safety/law enforcement unions are the worst of the worst.) Of course, for every adversarial union - employer situation, you have two sides, in the sense that management often, but not always, plays a big part in the problem.

Saying that, should we dump unions (which is what the bill would have done at the private employer level)? I think not, since at will employment means the card is stacked so heavily against an individual empoloyee. Only collective action among employees (i.e. a union)can help minimize harms to employees. A bargaining unit can level the playing field.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-18-2017, 09:14 AM
 
Location: states without income tax ;)
500 posts, read 636,088 times
Reputation: 725
In a free society employees would be free to organize, form a union, and approach an employer to bargain. However, also in a free society, the employer would be free to tell them to hit the road and fire them all. Very few want it to be this way, though, because freedom scares people. Thus, in the society we currently live most people do not want freedom, but want some form of fascism or communism, just their form of fascism or communism.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2017, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Indiana Uplands
26,407 posts, read 46,575,260 times
Reputation: 19549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrewsburried View Post
Precisely. The bill was pushed by AFB, an political entity known for pushing an anti-worker policy. The NH GOP knew this was against the interests of it's working class constituents.
If only that concise logic was actually applied to GOP dominated states further south... Oh well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2017, 11:23 AM
 
3,886 posts, read 3,504,464 times
Reputation: 5295
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeviDunn View Post
In a free society employees would be free to organize, form a union, and approach an employer to bargain. However, also in a free society, the employer would be free to tell them to hit the road and fire them all. Very few want it to be this way, though, because freedom scares people. Thus, in the society we currently live most people do not want freedom, but want some form of fascism or communism, just their form of fascism or communism.
Actually, this is pretty close to what we have now! Seems to work well for companies, not so well for workers. How much of a raise have you had the past few years? How confident do you feel regarding your job? Unpaid overtime? Not getting paid for the time it takes to get ready for your shift?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2017, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Ossipee, NH
385 posts, read 345,587 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear99 View Post
Actually, this is pretty close to what we have now! Seems to work well for companies, not so well for workers. How much of a raise have you had the past few years? How confident do you feel regarding your job? Unpaid overtime? Not getting paid for the time it takes to get ready for your shift?
Raises shouldn't be a "right". They used to be based on an employer deciding an employee has done better than average or expected - that the employee worked extra hard and is valuable and earned it. The employer offers a raise because he wants to keep this valuable employee. And I know plenty of people who shouldn't be confident they will keep their job as they do as little as possible they can get by with, let alone get a raise!

If the employee doesn't like the terms, the employee should find a different job. If they are "that good" that they "deserve" that raise, they should have no trouble going elsewhere.

And who gets paid "getting ready" for a shift? In my job, my shift starts at 8am. I am expected to be on duty at 8am and already "ready". I don't get paid for that, why should I?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2017, 03:24 PM
 
8,272 posts, read 10,989,003 times
Reputation: 8910
Quote:
Originally Posted by sb2017 View Post
And who gets paid "getting ready" for a shift? In my job, my shift starts at 8am. I am expected to be on duty at 8am and already "ready". I don't get paid for that, why should I?
Granted, most jobs one just shows up.


But there are other specialized jobs that require specialized clothing put on at job. Such as clean rooms or specialized laboratories.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2017, 03:28 PM
 
3,886 posts, read 3,504,464 times
Reputation: 5295
...and safety gear. Clean rooms are a good example. If you've ever been in one, you'd know it takes quite a while, especially for class 100 or below (tighter).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2017, 08:35 PM
KCZ
 
4,673 posts, read 3,665,713 times
Reputation: 13295
That may be true but it probably applies to less than 1% of the workers in this country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2017, 06:03 AM
 
17 posts, read 30,543 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeviDunn View Post
In a free society employees would be free to organize, form a union, and approach an employer to bargain. However, also in a free society, the employer would be free to tell them to hit the road and fire them all. Very few want it to be this way, though, because freedom scares people. Thus, in the society we currently live most people do not want freedom, but want some form of fascism or communism, just their form of fascism or communism.
Precisely.

It's a damn shame people are such cowards.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2017, 11:47 PM
 
1,438 posts, read 779,113 times
Reputation: 1732
New Hampshire is a blue state and has voted for a Democratic president in every election since 1992, except for 2000 which was due to Ralph Nader. They know that if they vote for this, they'll lose their jobs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Hampshire

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top