Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Seriously, so much potential in that town, but this retarded antiquated law is holding them back. Had some friends in town this weekend, and we went to Tortilla Press for dinner. They had never been to Collingswood before and are maybe looking to relocate and open a restaurant. Finished up a great dinner by 8:30 and the friends said, "This is such a cute town. Let's go get a drink." To which, we replied, "Can't do that here. We'll have to go home or to another town for that." We ended up walking down Haddon to Westmont and passed a number of empty restaurants. At 8:30. On a Friday. On a beautiful night. The friends were a bit turned off by the lack of foot traffic and empty restaurants. It's so obvious that a nice Pub or wine bar would do for that town. Why can't they seem to figure that out?
For those of you that are questioning why Collingswood is a dry town. Please note that their is a deed restriction related to Knight's Park for all properties in Collingswood. That deed restriction requires that all business properties must be dry. If that restriction was violated, then the ownership of the entire park would revert back to the heirs of Mr. Knight. For that reason Collingswood will remain a dry town forever!!
That has been discussed on here before and it really isn't as big of a deal as people like to make it out to be. It's such a non-issue that the town has openly discussed allowing alcohol sales in the past and this was never cited as a reason they couldn't do it. GraysFerryB4 knows more about it then I do, but it basically comes down to the fact that the park isn't going anywhere whether Collingswood is dry or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale
Ever heard of BYOB?
We go there often and ALWAYS have a great time!
BYOB is great, we like it in order to save money, but I think most of the folks advocating for it in Collingswood would like to see a liquor store where you could buy the bottle you are BYOB'ing in town and/or a bar/pub that could provide people with a reason to stay after they eat dinner. The Avenue may be a "destination", but it's only a destination for dinner, then people leave.
Sorry, but I'm afraid that's not an accurate statement. From 'The Collingswood Story' by Raymond Mitchell Brancroft (1965): "It is a fallacy which persists to this day that Knight Park would be lost to the Borough should liquor stores or taprooms ever become legal within the Borough boundaries. This is not true. The writer [Bancroft] has carefully read copies of the original deed and there is no mention of any such provision."
My father read the deed as well and he reached the same conclusion as Mr Bancroft.
I don't remember when the ordinance was passed (well before my time) but prior to the passage liquor was legally available. There was, however, a lively bootleg business during the 1920s. That ended with Prohibition.
Perhaps we simply don't want bars and liquor stores.
And I personally don't understand the whole needing a place to buy it. Westmont is right there, so stop on your way? It's not like you have to drive into Philly to buy your bottle.
I love the comment, "we have to go to another town". That makes it sounds so difficult, but you can walk to the next town.
Someone should start up a delivery service where you can call in an order (or use an app) for liquor, and someone delivers it to you outside the restaurant (via scooter or bike).
Sorry, but I'm afraid that's not an accurate statement. From 'The Collingswood Story' by Raymond Mitchell Brancroft (1965): "It is a fallacy which persists to this day that Knight Park would be lost to the Borough should liquor stores or taprooms ever become legal within the Borough boundaries. This is not true. The writer [Bancroft] has carefully read copies of the original deed and there is no mention of any such provision."
My father read the deed as well and he reached the same conclusion as Mr Bancroft.
I don't remember when the ordinance was passed (well before my time) but prior to the passage liquor was legally available. There was, however, a lively bootleg business during the 1920s. That ended with Prohibition.
Perhaps we simply don't want bars and liquor stores.
You are correct that the town would not lose the park. I think it is a little more complex than a "non issue", but the fact remains the park isn't going anywhere. In a previous thread discussing this, we turned up some evidence that the wording was that the park would be ceded to Haddonfield. Obviously Haddonfield doesn't want a giant park in the middle of Collingswood and there is some debate over the enforcement of such an old clause anyway. Basically, there is something in the deed about the liquor sales and losing the park, but it's not something that isn't easily worked around.
Collingswood has banned liquor since 1873, before the town even became Collingswood. It originally was part of the Quaker Newton Colony from which the law dates and then became part of Haddon Township, until the borough split from Haddon Twp. in 1888. It was after that split that Edward Knight deeded the park to the town.
The law itself has never really been challenged, but there was certainly alcohol served and consumed in the town, much to the chagrin of the clergy that called the town home, most notably the men who created the Bible Presbyterian Church which was actually founded in the 1930's in Collingswood. Most of the drinking happened in the area that is now Robert's Pool which at the time was a country club. Basically, members went there to drink, not necessarily to play golf. It is somewhat similar to the situation that gave rise to Tavistock.
Overall, no matter how you slice and dice it the town is basically restricting itself based on 140 year old Quaker laws reinforced by later religious sensibilities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldog15
BYOB's are great.
And I personally don't understand the whole needing a place to buy it. Westmont is right there, so stop on your way? It's not like you have to drive into Philly to buy your bottle.
I love the comment, "we have to go to another town". That makes it sounds so difficult, but you can walk to the next town.
I think there are two things the people who live in town would cite as their reasons for wanting it.
1. There is a significant amount of revenue that could come from just selling the licenses. There is obviously a great opportunity to serve the restaurant market and the town could defnitely make money off of it.
2. There is little draw to Haddon Ave. outside of having dinner. People come, they eat, they leave. I think there is definitely room for a more low keyed bar/taproom place where people could hang out before or after dinner and help to keep the crowds in town and spending money. This heightened traffic may also have a cascade effect on the other businesses.
NJGoat, thank you for your information. I'm afraid some of my Collingswood collection has migrated to another part of the house. Before Edward Knight deeded the land to Collingswood, it was an azalea farm. I've got a picture postcard of it. The area around Roberts Pool was also a vinyard at one time. In the 1800s families traveled from Philadelphia to Collingswood to drink the water (the original spa weekend). Collingswood had a lot of underground streams and springs and apparently the water was considered very healthful.
Because of all the churches in town (I count 13), my dad observed that residents were either extremely pious or dreadful sinners in need of redemption.
Someone should start up a delivery service where you can call in an order (or use an app) for liquor, and someone delivers it to you outside the restaurant (via scooter or bike). Jasomm, years ago a liquor store in Oaklyn was delivering to residences in Collinswood. Delivering was considered the same as selling liquor. The store was fined for violating the law. After the dust settled, the store began delivering again. More fines. This was repeated several times. I believe the liquor store finally shut down. Don't even THINK about delivering to customers standing outside the restaurants. The rozzers will be after you! Then we'll have to bake you a cake with a file in it to get you out of nick.
Last edited by Shirley-NJ; 03-26-2012 at 04:34 PM..
Reason: not finished posting
Jasomm, years ago a liquor store in Oaklyn was delivering to residences in Collinswood. Delivering was considered the same as selling liquor. The store was fined for violating the law. After the dust settled, the store began delivering again. More fines. This was repeated several times. I believe the liquor store finally shut down. Don't even THINK about delivering to customers standing outside the restaurants. The rozzers will be after you! Then we'll have to bake you a cake with a file in it to get you out of nick.
Ha ha ha... thanks for the heads-up. Im guessing nobody would ever try this anyway.
Though, If it were a delivery company, independent of the liquor store (as opposed to the example from Oaklyn), perhaps it would be legal now. After all, the state just passed something this past year allowing the shipping of alcohol to homes in NJ. Something that was not possible before, and I was annoyed to learn during my trip last year to Sonoma, CA. Perhaps this also loosens restraints on Scooter Booze (trade marked!) delivery.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
