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the public school system in lyndhurst isn't the best. not terrible, but certainly not great by nj standards. bergen county has some of the best public (and private) schools in the entire state, but lyndhurst isn't blessed with any of them.
as a matter of fact, the southern bergen towns, which generally have worse schools than the affluent northern bergen communities, routinely send their best and brightest kids to private schools in other towns. that's why a school like bergen catholic (overrated in my opinion, but still has a great rep) is filled with so many talented, smart, and athletic kids from towns like lyndhurst, east rutherford, etc.--because the parents of these kids don't feel their local public school systems are good enough.
Another blue-collar bash thread. Yes there are more hispanics in that area now and still a big racial divide. I have actually found that among younger folks (under 35)- blue collar often means more tolerant-even in those areas. There is some mad generalizing going on here.
I don't care for the area in question. I don't think it is a great area for families or single people to live. There are just better places to live. It is affordable but I don't see what it has to offer a single person who is from out of the area. The archie types are still around but they are not the majority in those areas at this point. The issues with law enforcement are another matter-there have been stings just to see who gets pulled over the most. No surprises there. The results are what you would expect.
But the stereotyping on here. The majority in Teaneck and Englewood are happy? There is no way you can survey this. It's like saying "I have a friend in Secaucus and most everyone he knows is happy"....... Please.....
Another blue-collar bash thread. Yes there are more hispanics in that area now and still a big racial divide.
hey, i'm just calling it as i see it. everything i said was based on what i've seen and experienced firsthand over my 30+ years living in the southern bergen/meadowlands area. i didn't come onto this thread with an anti-blue collar agenda, but in order to give an honest answer to the original query, i felt compelled to talk about the blue collar population in the town and explain the implications for her as an african-american. i've spent my entire life in predominantly white, blue collar communities such as lyndhurst and i'm not going to mince words about my experiences.
the original poster is a minority/person of color, like myself, and wanted to know if she'd feel comfortable in lyndhurst. and the honest truth is that she most definitely will NOT, esp. as an african-american.
are you a person of color? did you grow up in these kinds of circumstances? if not, then you wouldn't know what it's like to be harassed and attacked just because you're a minority. of course there are good and bad people everywhere - i was able to make a few friends in these towns despite the overt racism growing up - but the bottom line is, i grew up in blue collar towns, i always went to school in blue collar towns, and as it happens i had to deal with a lot of prejudice and hostility based on my background. my brother and i got called racial slurs literally every day walking home from school, to the point where we'd walk out of our way just to avoid the streets where the local punk kids would be typically hanging out.
and you know what's funny? in college i met some other asian americans who, like me, grew up in predominantly white, blue collar towns across the country, and they recounted *very* similar experiences to mine - racially-based harassment, taunting, bullying, etc. so it wasn't just a meadowlands-area thing.
on the other hand, minority friends of mine (asian, middle eastern, and latino) who grew up in more affluent, white collar surroundings such as tenafly, ridgewood, scarsdale, and great neck (not to mention other rich towns around the country such as northbrook, illinois, rancho palos verdes, ca and atherton, ca) reported very little of this kind of racially-based taunting and attacks. there may have been the occasional subtle slight, but for the most part, they reported that things were pretty uneventful growing up. i was shocked when i first heard this, because i'd assumed all people of color typically went through what i experienced, but by and large these kids from wealthier communities didn't face much overt discrimination, if at all. was there racism in these rich areas? probably to some degree, because it can happen anywhere. but is it equally as likely as the homogenous blue collar areas? i don't know, but i think my friends' accounts were very telling.
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Originally Posted by cyntmac
I have actually found that among younger folks (under 35)- blue collar often means more tolerant-even in those areas. There is some mad generalizing going on here.
you know, common knowledge is that each succeeding generation, regardless of background, becomes more open-minded and tolerant. i don't doubt that this is *generally* the case and that the younger blue collar kids are more open minded than their parents. but i don't get your assertion that younger blue collar people these days = more tolerant than white collar. it honestly goes against everything i've seen and experienced, growing up as a minority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyntmac
I don't care for the area in question. I don't think it is a great area for families or single people to live. There are just better places to live. It is affordable but I don't see what it has to offer a single person who is from out of the area.
agreed. not a bad area, but not a great one either. lots of better towns/regions in the county and the state on any number of levels. rutherford's the best of the bunch, if i were to choose one, based on the its downtown, train station, housing stock, and general aesthetics (they don't call it the borough of trees for nothing).
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyntmac
The archie types are still around but they are not the majority in those areas at this point. The issues with law enforcement are another matter-there have been stings just to see who gets pulled over the most. No surprises there. The results are what you would expect.
i don't know if i agree with you that the archie bunkers of the world are not the majority in these towns. but let's say you're right on this. so what about the people who currently live in these towns? they're probably less overtly racist than when i was a kid, but i certainly wouldn't say they'd be rolling out the welcome mat for people of color to be moving into their town--especially not an african-american; at least that's the feeling i get. which is precisely my point. bottom line, minorities aren't made to feel welcome in these towns, even today, which is why a town like lyndhurst is a poor match for the original poster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyntmac
But the stereotyping on here. The majority in Teaneck and Englewood are happy? There is no way you can survey this. It's like saying "I have a friend in Secaucus and most everyone he knows is happy"....... Please.....
i never said "the majority in these towns are happy". my exact words were "african-americans I'VE SPOKEN TO feel very comfortable and happy in these towns". in other words, these are people i know personally, with whom i went to high school and college and/or became acquainted as a young adult. some of these people grew up in teaneck, englewood, maplewood, montclair, etc. while others moved there as young professionals. but to a man, they rave about the diversity, the sense of community, and the level of comfort that they don't find in other towns such as lyndhurst. i'm not claiming that these people speakfor EVERYONE in these towns, or that they're represent all african-americans in the region, but i will say this: there are a lot of upwardly mobile african-americans out there who want to live in northern nj, but will pass over a town that they can afford just because it has a reputation in the black community as being unwelcoming toward them. instead, they'll look for towns that have a history of diversity and tolerance. while teaneck and englewood are far from perfect (and in fact have had racial flare-ups over the years), bottom line is that they're two of the only towns in bergen county that have a sizeable black community. and according to my af-am friends and acquaintances, that means a lot, so yes, they really do love it there, and yes, they've told me that those towns enjoy a highly favorable reputation in the african-american community.
sorry that my opinions bother you. but again, i'm speaking from personal experience. i'm trying to give sound advice as a minority to a fellow minority (the original poster). you and i are not going to see eye-to-eye on this, so let's leave it at that.
First of all I am NOT a realtor I said I work in the realestate business which doesn't mean that I'm a realtor. Second I know people of all races who live in Lyndhurst and they like. You keep on tell people to move to Orange and Maplewood when those towns aren't diverse they 95 % african american with a bad school system. I know this for fact. Instead move to a nicer area just because there some people in a town who are racist doesn't mean that the entire town is. Lyndhurst is a nice town with all races that live there not just white people. I am hispanic and live in a town that is perdominately white but everyone in my town are very much open minded and have not had any issues. I had more issues moving to Clifton and other areas. Why not break the stereotype and move to a nice area and give your children the best. Just remember we are not in the south and that there are narrow minded people where ever you go.
Actually Maplewood South Orange have a higher rate of Caucasians in the area but Blacks Aren't to far behind
Wow, pbergen. You've posted some of the most heartfelt, honest posts I've ever seen here--so, from a white chick in Morris County, thanks.
I worked in Lyndhurst for three years between 1997 and 2000.
I don't think I actually saw a black person, outside of those I worked with at E&Y, in that time, in town.
It's an Italian, blue-collar town, which, sure, it's Jersey, you get that. Duh. But I didn't like it, for God's sake, and I'm so white I glow in the sun. I thought it was a run-down, poor excuse for a town.
No way a black person is feeling welcome there. Stay away from Newark, because it's just awful, but do consider Hoboken, Livingston, Maplewood, Summit, or Morristown. They're all nicer towns, anyway.
Yes there is deep rooted racism in uppermiddle class towns. As an asian you may not have experienced it. I am familiar with the same communities you are speaking of and yes they have a sizable black community.
As the other poster said- people have to use common sense. I have not heard many raves about "diversity" lately. I am not disputing what someone experienced. I just don't buy all the generalizations on here. Many of the Archies are leaving those areas for greener pastures. I don't know to where-maybe Florida or the Poconos or somewhere similar. They generally do not have the income to live wherever they want. They are more likely to be in a life where they come into close contact with minorities. This will likely be the case for the children as well. This is the reality in urban America today. Money will tend to isolate you from difference like nothing else.
I would not think of a town like this for myself so I would not have suggested it to the OP-even if not Black. This town could be one of the worst as far as racism goes but no one can speak for every minority even if a minority.
I lived in Lyndhurst for 25 or so years and it certainly wasn't the most diverse place in NJ. There was a time w/ some Klan activity. I recall pamphlets being handed out in the high school in the very early 90's.
also as wrong as it sounds i know my grandfather paid an extra $500 for his house, albeit in the 60's, because it was agreed upon by the entire neighborhood that no house would be sold to a minority. I wonder if that would fly now? lol
I have fallen in love with an apartment in Lyndhurst, NJ but I am African-American and I noticed that the community isn't very diverse. I'm concerned because there are still areas of Bergen County that are not welcoming to ethnic groups. I would love any feedback on the Lyndhurst community and school system. I am looking for a comfortable and diverse community where the neighbors are welcoming regardless of ethnicity.
I take issue with the way you phrase your point : "I'm concerned because there are still areas of Bergen County that are not welcoming to ethnic groups". Did it ever occur to you that 'white' people have ethnic groups too? If you like Lyndhurst, take notice of the ethnicity of the people that live there. Lyndhurst has Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans, Polish-Americans, etc. If you appreciate their ethnicity, in turn those people will be more prone to appreciating your ethnicity.
Two points worth mentioning... How welcoming a community is isnt purely based on demographics. Theres a subtle racism in that. Often people who have had bad experiences will speak in generalities and it will resonate, but that doesnt make it right. As a white kid growing up in Brooklyn, I had almost nothing but bad experiences with black kids, but Im not going to advise someone to immediately avoid an area just because the majority of the population is black. So I think it is extremely unfair to say 'well its 95% white so its not diverse, you wont be welcome, etc etc' Essentially what a comment like that is saying is "the more white people, the worse it will be for you because they're all bad" Way to be inclusive! Thats pretty much just as close minded as when racist whites make the reverse argument.
That said, it is absolutely possible that Lyndhurst isnt a good place to be. I have seen communities of ALL kinds (white, black, hispanic), that were clearly NOT for "outsiders". I have also seen white communities where hispanic or asian friends of mine automatically assumed they were "in big trouble" and got nothing but a warm welcome.
My advice to the OP would be to trust your own instincts. Before doing something as huge as moving somewhere, you have to go and feel it first hand. DONT let the great apartment overshadow your instincts! THAT is the best advice. And DONT listen to the realtor.
Go and walk around. Check the area out. If you sense that it may be rough, odds are you are right. If nothing else, you shouldnt be somewhere that makes YOU uncomfortable.
Augment your firsthand experience with hard data. Stick with objective sources - demographic numbers, test scores, crime stats, etc.
On the web, too much becomes subjective and too much weight goes to the annecdotal evidence of the most vocal posters. Just my 2 cents.
Two points worth mentioning... How welcoming a community is isnt purely based on demographics. Theres a subtle racism in that. Often people who have had bad experiences will speak in generalities and it will resonate, but that doesnt make it right. As a white kid growing up in Brooklyn, I had almost nothing but bad experiences with black kids, but Im not going to advise someone to immediately avoid an area just because the majority of the population is black. So I think it is extremely unfair to say 'well its 95% white so its not diverse, you wont be welcome, etc etc' Essentially what a comment like that is saying is "the more white people, the worse it will be for you because they're all bad" Way to be inclusive! Thats pretty much just as close minded as when racist whites make the reverse argument.
That said, it is absolutely possible that Lyndhurst isnt a good place to be. I have seen communities of ALL kinds (white, black, hispanic), that were clearly NOT for "outsiders". I have also seen white communities where hispanic or asian friends of mine automatically assumed they were "in big trouble" and got nothing but a warm welcome.
My advice to the OP would be to trust your own instincts. Before doing something as huge as moving somewhere, you have to go and feel it first hand. DONT let the great apartment overshadow your instincts! THAT is the best advice. And DONT listen to the realtor.
Go and walk around. Check the area out. If you sense that it may be rough, odds are you are right. If nothing else, you shouldnt be somewhere that makes YOU uncomfortable.
Augment your firsthand experience with hard data. Stick with objective sources - demographic numbers, test scores, crime stats, etc.
On the web, too much becomes subjective and too much weight goes to the annecdotal evidence of the most vocal posters. Just my 2 cents.
The original poster may very well have a hard time in Lyndhurst. Who knows? I lived in Belleville, a town with similar demographics. Black people had no problem moving in.
If anything, at the most, the original poster might find white people are hesitant about embracing black folks moving in, as look at other working class towns where the same has happened: quality of life has deteriorated in Bloomfield and Belleville at the same time the black population increased. Is it because of the blacks? Is it because these towns have lost industry? Is it because the middle class left for outersuburbs or Florida? It may very well be all happened at the same time. And more often than not, people focus on the newcomers coming in, rather than seeing the larger economic picture unfolding around them.
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definitely not welcoming
