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Yup! He's right "up there" with the middle class, like the vast majority of us. Not to worry Annie, he's getting whalloped like everyone else. You will have your wish.
i get a statement every year with my pension account balance. it's not a dream because my company actually put the money there, unlike NJ, which just claimed that it would but didn't.
I think those guys at U.S. Steel had that same line. Now they just have SS and Medicare!
I think those guys at U.S. Steel had that same line. Now they just have SS and Medicare!
that's not true. they didn't get their full pensions if it was beyond the guaranteed amount, but they get their guaranteed amount. same thing happened with bethlehem steel.
actually - it may not have happened with u.s. steel - they may not have been participating in the PBGC. but it is what happened with bethlehem steel. here's a good source:
If your employer has not sufficiently funded its pension plan, it could be terminated and taken over by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. That was the case with Bethlehem Steel, United Airlines, and US Airways, which walked away from a total of $13.8 billion in pension liabilities to nearly 280,000 vested participants in 2003 and 2005.
In most cases, you will get the full vested benefit owed to you up to the time the pension plan is terminated. If you earn a high salary, however, you could lose benefits you accrued that exceed the PBGC guarantee limit, which ranges from $12,150 to $54,000 for plans terminated in 2009. How much you'll get depends on your age (45 to 65) and whether you take a straight life annuity or joint annuity with 50 percent survivor benefit.
Plans that were terminated in earlier years guarantee less—for example, $8,698 to $38,659 for terminations in 2000—as coverage limits increase yearly. The PBGC says that only 16 percent of participants lost benefits, according to a 2008 study, but that's a 160 percent increase over benefits lost in 1999, when a study found that only 6 percent lost benefits.
The average benefit reduction has increased significantly, to 28 percent of what high-salary participants earned in 2008 from only 16 percent in 1999. Those losses do not include the loss of future accruals that the workers would have earned if the plan had continued to credit them for tenure and compensation gains."
we should also be aware of the limited resources of the PBGC and their inability to actually cover pension liabilities if there was a large scale issue.
found this on their web site:
Investment Profile:
As of September 30, 2010, the value of PBGC's total investments in its two insurance programs, including cash and investment income receivable but not securities lending collateral, was approximately $71.19 billion. PBGC's assets are generated from premium receipts and assets from terminated trusteed plans and their sponsors. The Corporation's assets are segregated into two funds.
The Revolving Funds (valued at approximately $17.58 billion as of September 30, 2010) receive all premium payments and are required by statute or policy to be invested in fixed-income securities. The Trust Funds (valued at approximately $53.61 billion as of September 30, 2010) receive assets from terminated plans. Trust Fund assets can be invested more flexibly than Revolving Fund assets.
Overall investment policy is set by the Corporation's Board of Directors, which consists of the Secretary of Labor (Chair), the Secretary of the Treasury, and the Secretary of Commerce. In addition, the PBGC Advisory Committee, appointed by the President, advises PBGC's Director on investment activities. PBGC uses institutional investment management firms to invest its assets subject to PBGC oversight. PBGC, with the advice of its Advisory Committee, continually reviews its investment strategy to ensure that it maintains an investment structure that is consistent with its long-term objectives and responsibilities.
In compliance with a May 2009 Board directive, PBGC ceased all further activity to implement the Investment Policy Statement approved in February 2008. A Temporary Investment Policy Guidance and Transition Plan, approved on October 14, 2009, directs PBGC to prudently rebalance the PBGC portfolio and reduce PBGC's investment in public equities. PBGC will announce any new investment policy when it is adopted by the Board.
in the same way that one needs to be concerned about the company who sold them term life insurance going under, AND the state that provides a safety net to that (up to a set limit) also not being able to back it...yeah, it could happen, but if there were a situation that caused that huge of a catastrophe, our money would be worthless anyways so who the heck cares about the pension?
To make public workers on par with private sector: do you think the folks in this forum who believe pensions should be stripped ASAP would also agree to a salary hike commisserate with private sector? I know personally my public counterparts would need a good 20-30% increase to match where I am. Also, would they agree to a 401K with say a 50% match of the first 6% like a good number of companies do? How about bonuses and guaranteed raises (contrary to popular belief, a HUGE portion of state workers have not seen a raise in 3-4 yrs - EVEN UNION DESPITE THE FACT IT'S IN THE CONTRACT)?
I think it's expected public workers should get the shi**** aspects of public employment without the good stuff a lot of companies offer, but all under the guise of "apples to apples".
no i don't think that, because they will feed you the false information that private sector employees make half, on average, what public sector employees make, leaving out the facts....the average public sector employee has a bachelor's degree or higher...is it really fair to compare them to a group who includes the guy who gives you french fries at the drive through?
To make public workers on par with private sector: do you think the folks in this forum who believe pensions should be stripped ASAP would also agree to a salary hike commisserate with private sector? I know personally my public counterparts would need a good 20-30% increase to match where I am. Also, would they agree to a 401K with say a 50% match of the first 6% like a good number of companies do? How about bonuses and guaranteed raises (contrary to popular belief, a HUGE portion of state workers have not seen a raise in 3-4 yrs - EVEN UNION DESPITE THE FACT IT'S IN THE CONTRACT)?
I think it's expected public workers should get the shi**** aspects of public employment without the good stuff a lot of companies offer, but all under the guise of "apples to apples".
That's just pure bs. If you think private sector makes more, then you are free to quit and find a job there. US is a free market economy last time i checked.
If you decide to stay in the public sector, then stop whining about the lower pay. You get a paycheck like everyone else, if you dont like the paycheck and think you are worth more, then quit and find another job.
You have noone to blame but yourself if you decide to stay in a low paying public job for 30 years then whine about taxpayer not giving you their money for your pension to make up for it.
in the same way that one needs to be concerned about the company who sold them term life insurance going under, AND the state that provides a safety net to that (up to a set limit) also not being able to back it...yeah, it could happen, but if there were a situation that caused that huge of a catastrophe, our money would be worthless anyways so who the heck cares about the pension?
i dont think it would take that big of a catastrophe for the pbgc to not have enough money to cover its obligations.
i dont think it would take that big of a catastrophe for the pbgc to not have enough money to cover its obligations.
it would have to be pretty large scale. they support approximately 44 million workers in 29,000 plans. they would need many of those companies to reneg on their obligations to cause a scare. if we were collapsing to that degree, we'd have far bigger things to worry about than a pension payment that would be worthless anyways since we'd be the new republic of china.
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