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Old 05-19-2012, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
14,682 posts, read 14,648,352 times
Reputation: 15410

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Quote:
Originally Posted by soug View Post
Perhaps, but not enough. When you think of the big northeastern cities, it's always Boston, NYC, Philly, Baltimore, DC. There is no reason at all why Newark shouldn't be on that presitigious list. It has everything a big city traditionally has - cultural offerings, airport, seaport, sports teams, even a skyline, etc. And yet, in the northeast it's never "the big six" cities, just the "big five" I mentioned above. There has to be a reason for this. And I don't buy that it is too close to Manhattan. Maybe that applies to JC, but not Newark.
Like Detroit, Newark's riots in '67 were much worse than what occurred in the country that year (and in '68). And like Detroit, it has taken much longer than other US cities to experience a renaissance. It will happen, but lags behind the others due to what appears to be a more scarred psyche than other cities with a more diversified economy.
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Old 05-19-2012, 05:11 PM
 
Location: pennsauken
402 posts, read 752,238 times
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Make all of Essex county the city of Newark. I think that would put Newark on par with Philly. Also it's hard to have a sense pride when you don't have your own media outlets. We let phily and ny dictate how we see ourselves and our cities.
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Old 05-19-2012, 05:13 PM
 
835 posts, read 1,040,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
Like Detroit, Newark's riots in '67 were much worse than what occurred in the country that year (and in '68). And like Detroit, it has taken much longer than other US cities to experience a renaissance. It will happen, but lags behind the others due to what appears to be a more scarred psyche than other cities with a more diversified economy.
You really can't compare them. Newark doesn't have as much urban crime and blight as Detroit. Detroit wants to gentrifiy but it can't because of all the problems. Newark doesn't want to gentrify, it wants to revitalize. There are still tons of things that are happening to help the cities people of low income. I read it some where that there is a plan for Newark. It's supposed to roll in motion over the course of many years. They want mixed income housing for people of all economic statuses unlike cities like NYC that just build condos. That's why it seems like Newark is taking so long. They want a steady growth.
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Old 05-19-2012, 06:47 PM
 
1,953 posts, read 3,878,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey08057 View Post
Also it's hard to have a sense pride when you don't have your own media outlets. We let phily and ny dictate how we see ourselves and our cities.
Hmm no idea about NYC media but I'd say the Philadelphia stations provide very adequate coverage of the burbs. At the very least, ABC (WPVI) has a news bureau in Trenton. I have always been satisfied with local coverage of SJ from the Philly stations, both in terms of positive and negative stories. In addition, The Courier Post and the Star Ledger, along with nj.com, provide great coverage of NJ news. I haven't really paid attention to the new NJTV, but if they are doing on par with the quality of the old NJN, I'd be satisfied with them too.

I am always surprised when I hear people say NJ has an identity crisis. This definitely isn't the case - we have one of the strongest state identities out of all fifty. Maybe we suffer from an appreciation crisis, but we certainly do not have an identity crisis. I really don't get why people compare NJ to Philly and NYC. One is a state, the other two are cities. You can't compare them, it's apples to oranges.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:58 AM
 
2,881 posts, read 6,089,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJDevils89 View Post
See how far your good taste gets you in Nwk. You've probably never been there and if you have been it was to go to either the PAC or a restaurant in the iron bound.
I guess you missed the part where I said I was from 'here', 'here' being Newark ( Osbourne Ter, down the street from Beth Israel where I was born). And still in the area right off of Maple (Nwk/Hillside border).

If the '89' in your name is any indication of your year of birth then I've been stomping through the city before you were alive.
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:24 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,653 posts, read 5,961,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJDevils89 View Post
The truth is unnecessary? It's sad but true. You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. You've probably never experienced what some of these ghetto areas in Newark are like. Almost every woman older than 16 has at least 4 kids that are paid for by assistance. It's people like you who choose being politically correct and unbiased that are the exact reason this **** will never change in areas like this.
But that's not the reason for Newark's population growth though.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:42 PM
 
3,617 posts, read 3,884,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovethecommunity View Post
They want mixed income housing for people of all economic statuses unlike cities like NYC that just build condos.
The thing is, New York DOES do mixed income housing for people of all economic statuses -- which works there -- and then cities like Newark --where it won't work -- try the same thing and fall flat on their faces.

In NYC you see two methods:

1) Subsidized housing with different levels of subsidy for people of different incomes. This works in NYC as 'limited-income' can apply to people with incomes as high as the low six figures. The cheaper apartments (relative to market rate) thus can, when well executed, create an inducement for decent, working people to dilute the poverty and lack of cultural capital of public housing. Everyone wins but the taxpayer.

The reason this doesn't work in places like Newark is that, unlike in NYC, market-rate housing is already cheap enough that a decent, working family can easily afford to live where they want within most parts of the city (which isn't a bad thing; it's what makes the possibility of non-government-driven urban improvement nonzero). People with better options might (in NYC read: will) move into public housing to save a grand a month, but, they won't for 100-200/month at best.

2) Giving builders an easier time getting permit, or permits to build higher, in return for mixing in limited-income housing. This works because the 'value' of a building permit for extra height in Manhattan or prime Brooklyn can easily be worth hundreds of dollars per square foot. There is enough money for the developer to both pocket a chunk of that extra value AND compensate the market-rate tenants/buyers for both the presence of the limited income population and the resentment of paying more for the same thing: after all, a deal is still a deal.

In most other places, the value of getting a permit to build higher isn't worth as much, so allowing it won't necessarily generate enough value to make it a win-win for both the developer and the market-rate tenants/buyers; without which that system doesn't work.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:57 PM
 
10,222 posts, read 19,213,191 times
Reputation: 10895
Quote:
Originally Posted by soug View Post
Perhaps, but not enough. When you think of the big northeastern cities, it's always Boston, NYC, Philly, Baltimore, DC. There is no reason at all why Newark shouldn't be on that presitigious list. It has everything a big city traditionally has - cultural offerings, airport, seaport, sports teams, even a skyline, etc. And yet, in the northeast it's never "the big six" cities, just the "big five" I mentioned above. There has to be a reason for this. And I don't buy that it is too close to Manhattan. Maybe that applies to JC, but not Newark.
Even Philadelphia, a city of 1.5 million people 100 miles away, feels the shadow of NYC. So does Newark -- and a Newark of 784,000 people (all of Essex County) still would. It really is too close to Manhattan. The fact that it's a ----hole doesn't help.

Quote:
For every example that you cherry-pick, I can find another that supports my theory. Chestnut Hill, a neighborhood of Philadelphia, is just as far from Center City as Gladwyne is.
Gladwyne is slightly further than Chestnut Hill. But it's true that Philadelphia is bigger than Newark.

Quote:
Besides, PA suffers from home rule just as much as NJ does, with the notable exception of Philadelphia, where all of Philadelphia County merged together with the original city in the 19th Century.
The original claim was that NJ was unique in having cities that were "just the downtown core" and that in any other state Livingston would be a part of Newark. My point was twofold: first that Newark isn't just the downtown core, second that other states have cities which have not been able to absorb suburbs situated the way Livingston is to Newark.

Quote:
Good point. Honestly, not really sure why this is, I'm no economist. I'd assume it's because this state's tax structure is based heavily on our local school districts and municipalities, rather than at the county level, leading to a position where, in a way, it's almost like paying tuition.
If it's all about the schools, why don't people who don't have or want kids move into the areas of Orange, Irvington, and Newark which border West Orange, Maplewood, and South Orange? On paper it looks like a great deal; property prices drop enormously when you cross the municipal border. In Irvington's case, you could likely buy a property and rebuild the dwelling for half what it would cost to buy a similar property on the other side of the line. But no one does it.

What I'm getting at, of course, is that these municipalities have problems. Problems which cause people not to want to live there, kids or no kids. And if you were to put all of Essex County under Newark municipal governance, you'd allow those problems of Newark to expand to envelop all of Essex County.
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:02 PM
 
10,222 posts, read 19,213,191 times
Reputation: 10895
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALackOfCreativity View Post
The thing is, New York DOES do mixed income housing for people of all economic statuses -- which works there -- and then cities like Newark --where it won't work -- try the same thing and fall flat on their faces.
New York has "mixed income" housing (e.g. 80/20), but even the below-market housing requires fairly hefty incomes. And then they have NYCHA -- the projects -- for the really low incomes.
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Old 05-20-2012, 11:48 PM
 
9,007 posts, read 13,839,675 times
Reputation: 9658
Quote:
Originally Posted by DFBonnett View Post
Newark increased in population for the first time in 60 years

Indiscriminate sex, like dogs in the street, would tend to have that effect.
Some of the dogs in the street are from suburbia.
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