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The program that helps them is nice. I don't really know what the answer is to projecting future costs, but while everyone complains about the property taxes here, people don't realize that they're getting quite a bit for those taxes.
I just think it's funny that people here complain so much about it but don't leave. I've said this before, but I grew up in a town with "cheap" property taxes, in Northeast PA. When it snowed, we'd be lucky if our roads were plowed. There's nothing really offered by the town as far as services other than sewers and trash pick up (which is additional to the property taxes). The school is atrocious, so figure in another $10,000 or so for private high school if you want your kids to go to college, and depending on what you do for elementary school, you might not get accepted to the private school unless you also spent money on tutoring and/or private elementary school.
Say what you will about NJ taxes, but I think a lof of people that are from here and always lived here don't realize all the things you're getting that others don't get. Maybe you don't want all of those things...understandable. Just an "outsider" perspective though...
This is a fair point but what you are missing is that things have changed and the value for your taxes paid is reaching a point where it is no longer justifiable. I agree on the question of why don't more people move, I wonder that myself - probably combination of family and jobs tied to NYC.
I am still unsure why people say NJ public schools are so fantastic though, some districts are downright awful. The ones that are in "good" districts are also experiencing significant cutbacks and honestly they aren't so fantastic in my opinoin - it's all relative I suppose. Services,etc - everything is on the decline. So yes what once was somewhat justifiable is less so. The amount of corruption from previous administrations has caused an almost permanent budget deficit despite having some of the weathiest counties and highest property taxes in the nation.
If you read what I wrote, my reasoning is IF we give plenty of breaks to those who made poor financial decisions or are in bad situation for whatever reason then why is this not the case for individuals who are in situations that are no fault of their own. In the case I describe it is the STATE that made poor financial decision and is passing it on to citizens who took care of their own books and payments and now being saddled with high bills so the STATE can pay it's own bloated payroll bills.
I am not one to support handouts or "breaks", trust me. But in some cases where people are being robbed, it makes sense to speak up and ask. Plus your oh so helpful suggestion to "just sell" is not realistic right? Market is tanked. The burden is disproportionate and is hitting those who had no part in the problem. And paying into SS that you can't collect, fine that's a fair complaint that is being debated ad nauseum by our political friends and media pundits. I am raising a question on a issue that I never hear discussed. If it annoys you, then don't read it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jubileefd
I see it a bit different. First of all "not saving enough": if a person has PAID off their house in full. Paid for their kids education, have a nest egg of investments to fund day to day (food, clothes, car), to me that is certainly decent financial planning. Property tax however being "an issue" is due to the state not saving and penalizing the rest of us. And actually it's corruption too, we all know that - and this is what I refer to when I say robbed. If your property tax is let's say, 20-40K range - that is going to challenging for ANYONE to manage, even the stingiest saver.
And you keep ignoring the fact that it is not the case of despite all of the above an individual not wanting to sell (although that would be a fair thing to feel), it's a question of not being able to sell. I said nothing about perceived value, or 5 years - everything I have mentioned refers to long term holds and this includes "perception of value".
Lower the price and it will sell. It is that simple.
In addition to the NJ Senior Tax Freeze program and the Homestead Rebate for people under 65, don't forget the possibility of a property tax appeal. Your house might be over assessed and you can appeal the assessment to lower it, thereby lowering your property taxes. But really, this is just a temporary solution because the property tax rate is always going to inch up and up and up, so in a few years, you'll be back to paying the same amount of taxes which will continue to rise.
As far as the issue of "I can't sell my home"...hmm. Not sure. I know the market generally sucks, but a house that is priced right will eventually sell, right? But then again, I've read that the trend now is against buying larger homes or McMansions (and if you're talking about $20,000-$40,000 property taxes, I'm assuming you own a large home or a McMansion), not just because of the initial price tag of a large house, but because of a general paradigm shift toward smaller, leaner & meaner houses that are more energy efficient and 'green'. People don't want to spend $1,000 a month each winter just to heat the place. You might have to lower your asking price, which of course, I understand nobody wants to do. However, you also have to take into account what you paid for that house 30 years ago. Probably a LOT less even than a lowball asking price today. Regardless, I feel for your position. People should not be taxed out of homes they've already paid off. Thirty years ago, I don't think anyone really could have predicted $20,000 and $40,000 a year property taxes.
I know that NJ's higher property taxes means that we get to enjoy a lot of services, a first rate school system, etc. etc. However, I don't think we can just throw up our hands and say "OH WELL" about the property taxes. There's no denying that all the corruption, bureaucracy and fiscal waste in this state make the taxes worse than what they should be.
I see it a bit different. First of all "not saving enough": if a person has PAID off their house in full. Paid for their kids education, have a nest egg of investments to fund day to day (food, clothes, car), to me that is certainly decent financial planning. Property tax however being "an issue" is due to the state not saving and penalizing the rest of us. And actually it's corruption too, we all know that - and this is what I refer to when I say robbed. If your property tax is let's say, 20-40K range - that is going to challenging for ANYONE to manage, even the stingiest saver.
And you keep ignoring the fact that it is not the case of despite all of the above an individual not wanting to sell (although that would be a fair thing to feel), it's a question of not being able to sell. I said nothing about perceived value, or 5 years - everything I have mentioned refers to long term holds and this includes "perception of value".
You are wrong on that point when it comes to property taxes. Outside of the Abbot decisions forcing the state to allocate a large share of state educational dollars to a handful of districts instead of distributing it equally, anything related to your property taxes is simply an action of your local and county government and school board. People want to blame the state government for property taxes when in reality you don't need to look any further then your own town government and school board. Not one red cent of your property taxes goes to or is spent by anyone but those groups. Ironcially enough for all the complaining about property taxes, local elections are the least participated in of all. In most towns less then 5% of eligible voters show up to elect the mayor/council and school boards.
The program that helps them is nice. I don't really know what the answer is to projecting future costs, but while everyone complains about the property taxes here, people don't realize that they're getting quite a bit for those taxes.
I just think it's funny that people here complain so much about it but don't leave. I've said this before, but I grew up in a town with "cheap" property taxes, in Northeast PA. When it snowed, we'd be lucky if our roads were plowed. There's nothing really offered by the town as far as services other than sewers and trash pick up (which is additional to the property taxes). The school is atrocious, so figure in another $10,000 or so for private high school if you want your kids to go to college, and depending on what you do for elementary school, you might not get accepted to the private school unless you also spent money on tutoring and/or private elementary school.
Say what you will about NJ taxes, but I think a lof of people that are from here and always lived here don't realize all the things you're getting that others don't get. Maybe you don't want all of those things...understandable. Just an "outsider" perspective though...
I would have given this post more attribution two years ago.
Since then, I've moved to suburban St. Louis Missouri, into a top 50 national school district, the roads are plowed when it snows, the trash is collected, and the taxes in this town are about 60% less than Essex or Bergen County, which would be two comparables.
New Jersey municipalities have an insatiable appetite for their resident's incomes. It will never change unless people vote with their feet.
I don't want to be disrespectful to the elders but bottom line is you didn't save enough.
I have a problem with everyone receiving breaks and handouts and I would take issue with those who made poor financial decisions as well.
Yes taxes are an issue but this is a given. You have to adapt and accept it. Its not changing anytime soon. No one is being robbed. In that line of thinking I am being robbed for paying SS which I will never collect.
You have to do what is right for you and holding on to that house and paying those high taxes does not seem like the right move no matter how much PERCEIVED value it has lost in the last 5 years.
Because thirty or forty years ago they should have anticipated that their property taxes would approach what they paid for their house? How would it have even been possible to save enough on the salary someone was making at that time? If you are 85 and retired at 62 in 1988 when the average salary was less than $20K a year, how would you have POSSIBLY have saved enough money to pay $12-15K in taxes in 2012 and all the other years?
Because thirty or forty years ago they should have anticipated that their property taxes would approach what they paid for their house? How would it have even been possible to save enough on the salary someone was making at that time? If you are 85 and retired at 62 in 1988 when the average salary was less than $20K a year, how would you have POSSIBLY have saved enough money to pay $12-15K in taxes in 2012 and all the other years?
Listen, people need to look at themselves instead of trying to blame others. If you cannot afford the taxes move somewhere where you can. I'm sick of people pointing fingers. It is called saving and investing. You know the things we preach to the youth of today.
Listen, people need to look at themselves instead of trying to blame others. If you cannot afford the taxes move somewhere where you can. I'm sick of people pointing fingers. It is called saving and investing. You know the things we preach to the youth of today.
That's too simpilstic, have you been actually reading what people are writing instead of regurgitating the same comments? This is about people who HAVE saved and invested properly, that is the whole point!
You are wrong on that point when it comes to property taxes. Outside of the Abbot decisions forcing the state to allocate a large share of state educational dollars to a handful of districts instead of distributing it equally, anything related to your property taxes is simply an action of your local and county government and school board. People want to blame the state government for property taxes when in reality you don't need to look any further then your own town government and school board. Not one red cent of your property taxes goes to or is spent by anyone but those groups. Ironcially enough for all the complaining about property taxes, local elections are the least participated in of all. In most towns less then 5% of eligible voters show up to elect the mayor/council and school boards.
Ok, I will amend that to say local vs. =state specific to property tax at least. The sick part is our school district is one of the worst - we have some great private schools - but then that's another bill. So where is the money going? Secondly, not to get into too much detail but we had an incident in front of our house some time ago (car accident) and suffered some damage when we weren't home. The local police had no record of it. At first we thought it was our bad luck until we put our detective hats on (should have paid ourselves our own taxes), interviewed neighbors and found out details of what happpened and that in fact police were there. When we pushed, they found the records. There's more to the story, but the incompetence was shocking, and this was for a minor accident. Total tangent but it would be an easier pill to swallow if at least we were getting something for our money. And we are active voters, I agree that people need to vote, but I also can understand how people might get disillussioned and think that nothing will ever change,etc.
Last edited by jubileefd; 08-16-2012 at 02:00 PM..
The whole point is you are paying 20k in taxes. I live in Bergen county and pay less than half of that.
Like I said, it is as simple as lowering the price, selling your house and moving. Even if it is a few towns over.
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