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Again, you cant do this comparison because in West Orange, one doesnt have to spend $650,000. If i want a 4br 3bath 2200+ sqft home, i can get one for well under that price. As low as in the 200s according to zillow. In chatham, the absolute lowest for that is 650k and many are close to $1M. So the reality is, you will pay more for the same house in Chatham. Regardless of what percentage of that is taxes.
And again, yes you can, because taxation is based on value, not on isolating the physical characteristics of the improvement. You are not only getting a building with x square footage and y bedrooms in Chatham. You are getting the community, the schools, the downtown, the prestige, the much higher value of land, etc. All I care about is the $650,000 investment and what the town is going to strip from me if I spend that $650,000. The size of the house is irrelevant.
By the way, West Orange is not the only offender here. Many of the suburban towns in Essex County waste tax dollars like crazy. West Orange seems to be the best at it, if winning that battle can be considered "best".
By the way, West Orange is not the only offender here. Many of the suburban towns in Essex County waste tax dollars like crazy. West Orange seems to be the best at it, if winning that battle can be considered "best".
Nah, there's not a lot of waste in Essex County towns compared to other towns. The high property taxes are caused by several factors, including (1) the lack of big ratables (malls, office parks, etc.) in the older, inner-ring suburbs, causing greater reliance on property taxes to fund the schools, and (2) discrepancies in the distribution of state aid to schools that disproportionately affect these towns. But keep trying! Maybe you'll manage to scare a few Maplewood/Montclair house shoppers out your way.
You are getting the community, the schools, the downtown, the prestige, the much higher value of land, etc.
Why do you keep harping on "prestige"? I couldn't care less if someone told me they lived in Chatham, and I'm sure nobody else does either. It reminds me of the time I was selling some furniture on Craigslist. I made a sale to a couple and when they came to pick up the item they made it a point to tell me that they lived in Short Hills, even though I had not asked, nor was there any reason to mention their town in conversation. I guess they were trying to validate the "prestige" of living in Short Hills. I suppose they were pretty disappointed when I had no reaction.
Why do you keep harping on "prestige"? I couldn't care less if someone told me they lived in Chatham, and I'm sure nobody else does either. It reminds me of the time I was selling some furniture on Craigslist. I made a sale to a couple and when they came to pick up the item they made it a point to tell me that they lived in Short Hills, even though I had not asked, nor was there any reason to mention their town in conversation. I guess they were trying to validate the "prestige" of living in Short Hills. I suppose they were pretty disappointed when I had no reaction.
Yeah, really obnoxious. I don't like Short Hills much.
Again, you cant do this comparison because in West Orange, one doesnt have to spend $650,000. If i want a 4br 3bath 2200+ sqft home, i can get one for well under that price. As low as in the 200s according to zillow. In chatham, the absolute lowest for that is 650k and many are close to $1M. So the reality is, you will pay more for the same house in Chatham. Regardless of what percentage of that is taxes.
Just curious as to why you can't do the comparison?
Let's use round numbers....If you have 5K a month for housing and expenses wouldn't you factor in the cost of Principal & Insurance? If you get a fixed rate mortgage you can assume that to be a constant...and if you assume a 4% increase on taxes the staring point is very important.
21K + 4.0% increase = $840.00 a year and in 10 years will be an additional $8,400.00
10K + 4.0% increase = 400.00 a year and in 10 years will be an additional $4,000.00
So when you factor in total budget and expected increase...it all factors in. Now if you budget more of your money toward principal in the long run that is your investment....clearly fluctuating but looking over the long haul.
The other factors that came into play for us is schools. Like I mentioned before, we were very happy with the Elementary schools in West Orange, but had serious concerns when the kids reached Middle School and higher. Not saying you can't get a good education there....but the 6th Grade only school has been an issue for the district....get accustomed to new school, new people, new teachers....and when they are adjusted they have to do it all over again for 7th Grade.
Like I said...we loved living in West Orange, but saw no end to the tax increases. Even with these taxes the town is cutting services. Look over the mayor last discussion about the budget and the shortfalls.
Yeah, really obnoxious. I don't like Short Hills much.
Some may feel threatened by it, or more likely envious of it, but the fact remains: prestige exists. It is real. It is a factor. The buying public is aware of it and pays attention to it. Some towns have it. Others don't. And those that have it, have it because of wealth. Those that don't care about it may continue living their normal schedules. However, trust me, a large segment of the buying public values living in a prestigious town if they can afford it.
Also prestige is not limited to real estate. Virtually every product and service produced by man has a segment produced for wealthier, pickier, more discerning people. And those that can't afford to partake usually wish they could.
Just curious as to why you can't do the comparison?
Let's use round numbers....If you have 5K a month for housing and expenses wouldn't you factor in the cost of Principal & Insurance? If you get a fixed rate mortgage you can assume that to be a constant...and if you assume a 4% increase on taxes the staring point is very important.
21K + 4.0% increase = $840.00 a year and in 10 years will be an additional $8,400.00
10K + 4.0% increase = 400.00 a year and in 10 years will be an additional $4,000.00
So when you factor in total budget and expected increase...it all factors in. Now if you budget more of your money toward principal in the long run that is your investment....clearly fluctuating but looking over the long haul.
The other factors that came into play for us is schools. Like I mentioned before, we were very happy with the Elementary schools in West Orange, but had serious concerns when the kids reached Middle School and higher. Not saying you can't get a good education there....but the 6th Grade only school has been an issue for the district....get accustomed to new school, new people, new teachers....and when they are adjusted they have to do it all over again for 7th Grade.
Like I said...we loved living in West Orange, but saw no end to the tax increases. Even with these taxes the town is cutting services. Look over the mayor last discussion about the budget and the shortfalls.
Best of luck.
Ok. See below.
House A - West Orange
$369,000
2700sqft
4bed, 4 bath $2543 - total payment
1322 - P/I
1138 - taxes
689000 - Chatham
4bed, 3 bath
2505 sq ft 3466/mo - total payment
2460 - P/I
923 - taxes
Yes, the taxes are a larger percentage of the payment, but you are still paying much less in west orange. Thats really my point. If folks want prestige or just want to be in chatham, then the second house will be worth it. However, if they are just looking for a nice house and arent concerned with being in a prestigious town, then West orange might be the way to go for them. But at the end of the day, while the effective tax rate is much higher, Chatham, summit, millburn, etc are all much more expensive towns.
Some may feel threatened by it, or more likely envious of it, but the fact remains: prestige exists. It is real. It is a factor. The buying public is aware of it and pays attention to it. Some towns have it. Others don't. And those that have it, have it because of wealth. Those that don't care about it may continue living their normal schedules. However, trust me, a large segment of the buying public values living in a prestigious town if they can afford it.
Also prestige is not limited to real estate. Virtually every product and service produced by man has a segment produced for wealthier, pickier, more discerning people. And those that can't afford to partake usually wish they could.
If Chatham is so prestigious, why do you spend so much time on city-data trashing our happy little towns? Shouldn't Chatham be able to stand on its own merits? Isn't one of the hallmarks of prestige not needing to toot your own horn all the time? Could you possible sound more nouveau riche?
All of these areas are very nice towns. Chatham is obviously elite, Maplewood and South Orange are awesome, and West Orange is great as well. If you're living in any of these areas, especially if you're looking to buy now, you are doing something right. No reason to bicker back and forth. If I had to pick one area of those, I'd prefer Maplewood/SO, but it's totally personal. Chatham is fantastic in its own.
West Orange's taxes are very high relative to property values. It stopped my wife and I from looking there. Some people can handle paying those taxes mentally, some can't. But to single out WO compared to other Essex county towns is a little crazy. Taxes are bad in all of North Jersey, WO is just a little worse and doesn't have the breadth of multimillion dollar homes like some other towns rob help carry the tax burden. This might change over time, it may not.
Sorry, had to stand-up for my hometown. Homerism aside, the town has its drawbacks.
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