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Wow YB where are you coming from here? I am from somewhere else (obviously) but I have hardly come to your land and started demanding changes. Nowhere have I said that I am against hunting as I am not. Nowhere did I say that trapping should be banned. I said I am against it personally. I could not bring myself to set a trap for any animal for a number of reasons. It is torture. Also, because here is the problem-you wouldn't always catch an animal you want to catch. What if you catch a Mexican Wolf (oops, endangered species, oops, now what?)? It could also catch me, my child, my dogs or my horse when they are set on public lands.
I agree with you that people do move and do bring with them their background and experience and they do try to impose that on the new place. I brought this point up for a discussion as I am sure there are many people here (native New Mexicans) included who are so naive that they did not know this goes on here and now. Maybe native New Mexicans wouldn't be so supportive of this practice if they knew about it.
I also have to ask: Who buys coyote pelts and for what reason? A coyote coat....where is the market for that? Or, do we just buy them and hang them on our walls or make rugs out of them. Yeah, we have lots o coyotes but in a world with all these products to make us and our homes warm and cuddly, do we need coyote pelts? I don't know. Maybe we ship them to China for coats. Hard to figure.
And, by the way, I could get real nasty on this because next to the expended casings on the ground out here, I always find beer bottles next to them. Maybe trapping is not what we need to get rid of...maybe it is the trappers who drink while they work.
Last September, on BLM land, a man rockhounding in Utah accidently set off a device that blew orange dust onto him. It was sodium cyanide meant to kill a coyote and it almost killed him.
This was the work of Wildlife Services (WS), a branch of the USDA which operates a little-known secret war against wildlfe in the West. They employ various methods: trapping, poisoning, etc. According to it's own reports WS killed 87,00 coyotes, 2,500 boobcats, 318 black bears & 278 gray wolves in 2006.
They also killed thousands of dogs and cats in 2006 which you won't know about because they don't reoport that. It's called "shoot, shovel & shut-up".
Poison & traps don't discriminate. This is carnage and it's got to be stopped.
Another thing is apparently WS didn't keep good track of it's poison stocks.
I'm not anti-hunter please understand and from my research there are other decent programs the WS is involved in, but this killing-field isn't one of them.
Trapping is not hunting, it's akin to Nazi death camps. I'd go out there in the dead of night and shoot the tortured animal - this coming from a vegetarian.
We can only hope that the trapper's children will soon fall victim to the traps. Karma, dude.
I don't care for trapping, myself, but I do understand, (having been raised on in ranch in Wyoming), why it's done. It is one of the harsh realities of living in the West, although, personally, if I had a coyote problem, it would be my preference to take care of it with a .22, and put the animal down cleanly and quickly. I do sympathize with the idea of going out during the night, and putting the animal out of it's misery. However, hoping that "the trapper's children will soon fall victim to the traps", is completely inappropriate. Karma has nothing to do with wishing ill on someone's children, regardless of one's position on trapping.
Last edited by CelticLady1; 12-28-2007 at 06:16 PM..
WLutz is quite right: Trapping is a disgrace. It's NOT hunting and only the lazy and stupid trap. Strictly for morons and the talentless. If you can't shag your weak lard-ass off your smelly sofa and challenge yourself and your skills to obtain your quarry then you don't deserve it. Trappers are the underbelly/lowlifes of "sportsmen/women"; they deserve absolutely no respect.
Last edited by dracul; 12-30-2007 at 10:15 AM..
Reason: It's all in the hunt
I'm all for hunting, as long as it's really hunting and not just lying in wait for some poor animal to come along to the bait you laid out so you can plug it. That isn't hunting, and neither are poison and traps. Not only are poison and traps ethically repellent, but they are also non-specific and make the area dangerous for anything or anyone who happens along. They are about on the level of land mines. I'm with you, KimK and dracul.
I'm not even sure where to start with you people
Been a long time since I have seen such a group of uneducated, ignorant people gather for one post.
Trapping is not only a legal but an ethical methd of taking game. Not only in NM but also in a majority of the other states.
Trapping guidelines are designed around what are called "BMP'S" or "best management practices"
The majority of foot hold traps in NM are required to have an offset in the jaws to keep them from closing completly. Traps must be checked and animals removed every 24 hours and the licensed trapper is required to make the check every 48 hours. A release device must be carried to release any non target or unwanted animals.
AS for the comments about trappers being lazy, what a joke.
I would bet a dime to a dollar that you would not last a full day on a trap line.
I know I have NEVER had a person that wanted to run with me be able to keep up. It is one of the toughest jobs you can do.
When I run my line (I currently am not) it is run 7 days a week from shortly after sunrise until I call it quits in the furshed well after dark. There are no days off, no vacations, no sick days. You wake up feeling sick, to bad you go to work anyway.
As for traps being cruel, I catch my self yearly more times then I like to admit, have never had more then a scrape or two, no broken bones, no cuts etc.
As for your dogs, it's simple. Follow the law and keep them on a leash.
You are correct, BLM and Forest service land belongs to all of us. That means you and I both to be used as we please within the laws established for there use.
As for the folks who claim to be hunters but are bashing trapping as a legal method of taking animals. You should be ashamed to call yourself a sportsman. Again you want to have things your way but are willing to deny the rights of other sportsman to pursue game there way.
Be aware that your only cutting your own throat with this attitude.
I spend more money on a yearly basis trapping I.E money back into the economy, then most hunters do in a decade of hunting.
Wake up and smell the roses people. This is NM, this is the way some of us make part of our living for our families. Really simple, learn to deal with it or go back to where you came from.
One other thing that you need to keep in mind. Messing with a trap or a trapped animal will result in several things. The first being you are quite likely to get your tail handed to you if the trapper catches you. And yes, a person may use what ever force is necessary in this state to protect there property. A trapped animal is the legal property of the trapper.
The second is you will then quite likely end up in jail. Messing with a trap is a crime, shooting a trapped animal is a crime and removing an animal from a trap is a crime!
And for those of you who support the legal use of our resources, even if you don't personaly support trapping, I appreciate your support in a round about way.
Sorry if this seems rather blunt but dealing with uneducated people is not one of my strong points!
I'm not even sure where to start with you people
Been a long time since I have seen such a group of uneducated, ignorant people gather for one post.
Trapping is not only a legal but an ethical methd of taking game. Not only in NM but also in a majority of the other states.
Trapping guidelines are designed around what are called "BMP'S" or "best management practices"
The majority of foot hold traps in NM are required to have an offset in the jaws to keep them from closing completly. Traps must be checked and animals removed every 24 hours and the licensed trapper is required to make the check every 48 hours. A release device must be carried to release any non target or unwanted animals.
AS for the comments about trappers being lazy, what a joke.
I would bet a dime to a dollar that you would not last a full day on a trap line.
I know I have NEVER had a person that wanted to run with me be able to keep up. It is one of the toughest jobs you can do.
When I run my line (I currently am not) it is run 7 days a week from shortly after sunrise until I call it quits in the furshed well after dark. There are no days off, no vacations, no sick days. You wake up feeling sick, to bad you go to work anyway.
As for traps being cruel, I catch my self yearly more times then I like to admit, have never had more then a scrape or two, no broken bones, no cuts etc.
As for your dogs, it's simple. Follow the law and keep them on a leash.
You are correct, BLM and Forest service land belongs to all of us. That means you and I both to be used as we please within the laws established for there use.
As for the folks who claim to be hunters but are bashing trapping as a legal method of taking animals. You should be ashamed to call yourself a sportsman. Again you want to have things your way but are willing to deny the rights of other sportsman to pursue game there way.
Be aware that your only cutting your own throat with this attitude.
I spend more money on a yearly basis trapping I.E money back into the economy, then most hunters do in a decade of hunting.
Wake up and smell the roses people. This is NM, this is the way some of us make part of our living for our families. Really simple, learn to deal with it or go back to where you came from.
One other thing that you need to keep in mind. Messing with a trap or a trapped animal will result in several things. The first being you are quite likely to get your tail handed to you if the trapper catches you. And yes, a person may use what ever force is necessary in this state to protect there property. A trapped animal is the legal property of the trapper.
The second is you will then quite likely end up in jail. Messing with a trap is a crime, shooting a trapped animal is a crime and removing an animal from a trap is a crime!
Sorry if this seems rather blunt but dealing with uneducated people is not one of my strong points!
Its good to see someone that knows the laws. Trapping is done in most states, and there are reasons for it. Thanks Mtncat.
I am uninformed about trapping (which is why I bothered to post this). But, let me be clear. I am neither ignorant nor uneducated.
Main Entry: ig·no·rant
Pronunciation: \ˈig-n(ə-)rənt\
Function: adjective
Date: 14th century
1 a: destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics> b: resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors>
As to your particular situation, you are correct, I have no knowledge as to your education. Your education concerning trapping however is lacking.
You also mention and point a finger at the beer bottles and spent casings. This makes me wonder how you know these came from a trapper?
Lot's of folks use our public land to target practice! Yes, the down side is that some of them consume alcohol at the same time, both stupid and illegal. And for that matter just because you found evidence of shooting, trapping and the consumpation of alcohol in a given area there is nothing to suggest that they are at all related!
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Trapping is ignoble, cruel and cowardly
