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Old 04-10-2008, 12:43 PM
 
946 posts, read 3,273,493 times
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[quote=tecpatl;3417212] Read it again, if you can afford the time.

No.
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Old 04-10-2008, 12:57 PM
 
1,399 posts, read 4,190,889 times
Reputation: 1101
[quote=Devin Bent;3417653]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpatl View Post
Read it again, if you can afford the time.

No.
Oh...fine then...but I'm right
And let me know what you think about the book. I'm sure you'll love it.
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Old 04-11-2008, 07:13 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,892,167 times
Reputation: 22474
Quote:
Originally Posted by domino View Post
The map is hardly showing Mexico taking over the US, it's a map (although somewhat distorted) of what Mexico looked like before the land grap perpetrated by the USA. It's history - might makes right. . . . and I cannot believe anyone could be so upset by it, clearly it's tongue in cheek. We should be able to take a joke.

P.S. Unlike Turkey/Greece, Mexico does not have a history of periodic agression against its neighbor.

None of the SW USA were states of Mexico, they were territories of Spain.

If Mexicans really want to go back to the past then we need to bring the government of Spain back to rule over them. It was Spain that claimed the northern territories, Mexico declared it's independence but was so poorly governed that it couldn't control the inherited territories well, just as today it cannot control it's border states well so we see it's army having move into them.

Texans declared their independence from Mexico about 24 years after Mexico declared it's independence from Spain. That wasn't a land grab and anyone who believes so did not read their history books. They don't understand the Centralists or Federalists competing in Mexico and that many Federalists were moving into the north and in Texas fought against Santa Ana. And someone who doesn't know history would be unaware of how incompetent and disliked Santa Ana was in Mexico.

And as many Mexicans want to be in the USA now, it's difficult to understand why any would still be holding grudges -- especially by those Mexicans arriving here wanting USA citizenship and the rest. It just makes the distance they have to travel to get here that much less.
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Old 04-11-2008, 07:40 AM
 
2,857 posts, read 6,741,921 times
Reputation: 1748
Excuse me, but history was my minor in college, so I have studied some history. Spain relinquised their claim on New Mexico etal after Mexico won its independence. The land was claimed by Mexico (however tenuously) prior to the Mexican-American war.

The entire conquest of the New World was a land grab. In NM, first it was Spain's land grab, then Mexico's, then the USA. The fact that Mexico was in political turmoil and couldn't defend its claim on the territory has nothing to do with American expansionist goals. The Americans were opportunistic and found an excuse to start a war.
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Old 04-11-2008, 08:02 AM
 
382 posts, read 1,230,086 times
Reputation: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpatl View Post
There is a very real, historically correct reason for the ad to have been created for the Mexican market, period. The modern day immigration issue is a minor part of the joke, I think.
Created for the Mexican market in English? This had nothing to do with history, and everything to do with the current immigration invasion and the calls for "retaking" the Southwest. Period. It backfired. Read the business section - the ad company is scrambling. They knew it would be controversial before they approved it. They knew exactly how it would be perceived.
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Old 04-11-2008, 08:13 AM
 
382 posts, read 1,230,086 times
Reputation: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by domino View Post
Excuse me, but history was my minor in college, so I have studied some history. Spain relinquised their claim on New Mexico etal after Mexico won its independence. The land was claimed by Mexico (however tenuously) prior to the Mexican-American war.

The entire conquest of the New World was a land grab. In NM, first it was Spain's land grab, then Mexico's, then the USA. The fact that Mexico was in political turmoil and couldn't defend its claim on the territory has nothing to do with American expansionist goals. The Americans were opportunistic and found an excuse to start a war.
After Mexico won independence, they claimed the spoils of the Spanish. Why didn't they relinquish the land back to the natives? It was never part of the pre-Spanish empire.

So Mexico "claimed" the land, while the US purchased the land, and we are the bad guys? All humans are opportunistic. You are correct that the whole New World was a land grab. The US "grabbed" it last. End of story.

I predict within 50 years the US will attempt to annex or offer statehood to at least parts of Mexico. Anybody want to place a bet?
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Old 04-11-2008, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Surprise, Az
3,502 posts, read 9,629,719 times
Reputation: 1871
Quote:
This had nothing to do with history, and everything to do with the current immigration invasion and the calls for "retaking" the Southwest. Period. It backfired. Read the business section - the ad company is scrambling.
I see it more as tongue in cheek. Regardless, the company issued an apology....good enough for me. No "boycott" is going bring this company down. Just as no "boycott" of buying gas is going to lower prices at the pump.
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Old 04-11-2008, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque
5,548 posts, read 16,118,786 times
Reputation: 2756
domino lectured:

> The entire conquest of the New World was a land grab.

> In NM, first it was Spain's land grab,

From? (*)

> then Mexico's, ...

From Spain.

> then the USA. ...

From Mexico

(*) The original aboriginal inhabitants.

BTW, excuse my ignorance here, but has anyone heard of Indian reservations in Mexico? Sovereign Pueblos?

Just curious.
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Old 04-11-2008, 09:55 AM
 
2,857 posts, read 6,741,921 times
Reputation: 1748
Mortimer,
Sorry, I try not to lecture. Bad upbringing, I guess.
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Old 04-11-2008, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque
5,548 posts, read 16,118,786 times
Reputation: 2756
domino admitted:

> Sorry, I try not to lecture. Bad upbringing, I guess.

Lecture from parents == bad / too long / irrelevent / annoying
from girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband -- same.

Lecture from one who knows and is talking about something interesting, often good.

I meant lecture in a good way.
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