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> Retrofitting light rail into existing communities is a lot harder, ...
That's why they need to lay out a light-rail infrastructure now at Mesa del Sol
( while it is still a greenfield site ) and not later, after it is all built up.
They don't even have to lay out tracks, just reserve the right-of-way.
That is also why light rail down Central Avenue would be a grievous mistake.
That is also why light rail down Central Avenue would be a grievous mistake.
Not if the Medians on Central were torn out.. Most of Central has a median with landscaping and others just with cement. Although... Downtown I'm not too sure about.
The medians along UNM and in Nob Hill are nice. Ripping them out
will ugli-fy that street.
What could you possibly hope to achieve by putting in a rail system
down Central Avenue?
Would it be faster? Nope.
Would it be better in any way?
Would it be an order of magnitude more expensive to operate? Yes.
Just a thought, who says light rail has to run down the MIDDLE of the street?
What if it ran down one of the curb side lanes? Be easy to board, no
extra pedestrian traffic cutting across the street, etc., etc.
To be honest, I don't think Central Ave. is a good light rail choice. I'm just
pointing out that there can be many options as to how light rail could
be retrofitted where appropriate, or, if it's a completely new area, streets
and sidewalks can be designed to accommodate easy access, even bikes
and handicapped.
Would it be faster? Faster than what? Buses? On Central? Probably, but not
by enough to be justifiable.
Would it be better? Maybe if done creatively enough, but as I said, I don't
think Central is worth it.
More expensive to operate? Certainly more expensive BY FAR to build on Central,
but I think the bus/train operational numbers might be closer than expected.
The rail lines were removed in order to require auto transport and reinforce economic exclusivity in my cynical opinion.
Actually hybrid busses are an excellent answer to in city public transport.
I was just trying to see if I could get some interest in building a prototype. I really would like to build a small railroad the right way.
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
> ... who says light rail has to run down the MIDDLE of the street?
No one. I was just supporting the idea of KEEPING the medians.
> What if it ran down one of the curb side lanes?
It would be a bad idea running down the curb side lanes?
> Would it be faster? Faster than what? Buses? On Central? Probably, ...
Why? What would possibly make a light rail faster than a bus on Central?
Don't answer things like grade separation, traffic light control, stuff like that.
All those things are possible with busses and are being implemented in other countries now.
( I'd love to see the Rapid Ride and other central busses control the lights on Central. )
> Would it be better? Maybe if done creatively enough, ....
"Better" is subjective. If you put one light rail car on the street thereby
displacing ten busses elsewhere, would it be "better" to have bus riders in
those other locations standing out at the stops longer when making transfers?
> More expensive ... operational numbers might be closer than expected.
Operational numbers are also going to be much more expensive.
Operations expenses include any kind of maintenance and temporary
re-routing that has to happen from time-to-time.
-o- You can re-route a bus on dirt or gravel if necessary
-o- Rail is smoother for a reason: tracks are laser-leveled and have to be
.... meticulously engineered. The railcars ride on likewise
.... meticulously engineered steel wheels.
-o- Busses run on a street that is already built and paid for via
.... gasoline taxes. If you spent as much money building the
.... road your bus was going to use, it too would be as smooth.
( I've seen figures for building costs for light rail TRACK in excess of $100,000/foot. )
-o- Rail cars are custom-built and require specialized maintenance while bus
.... carriages are mass-produced and are the same all across the US.
.... ( and ride on mass-produced tires ).
( This doesn't have to be the case, but it is because currently, light rail is
just a local decision everywhere and thus has custom-engineered solutions
locally - rather than using national standards to make things cheaper.)
GregW then opined:
> The rail lines were removed in order to require auto transport and
> reinforce economic exclusivity in my cynical opinion.
I don't think that's your opinion, but a fact.
However, the fact remains that the lines are gone and putting them back
is a bad idea.
> Actually hybrid busses are an excellent answer to in city public transport.
.... he grudgingly admits ... <snort!>
You gave yourself away in another post - describing you and dad working
on a model train. You know you are a rail-nerd, so don't have much in the
way of practicality in mind when you talk about rail. That's why I'm here.
Someone needs to reign you in.
You could, OTOH, be thinking of:
-<>- rail running along I-40 to the East Mountains.
-<>- rail into and out of Mesa del Sol
-<>- high-speed rail from deepest darkest Rio Rancho on the bluff into
...... downtown and such.
Other ideas floating light rail on Central, Paseo del Norte ( East ) and
such will be rightfully shot down.
Ironic, it is, that you are so interested in rail, but have professed an interest,
NOT, in living in any NM city but out in the boonies where you are unlikely to
ever be a customer.
Still, I'm confident that you'll have good ideas for all that shiny track that you'll not be riding.
( I'll also bet that you would be much cheaper and do better
work than the consultants that are likely to be hired. )
> Would it be faster? Faster than what? Buses? On Central? Probably, ...
Why? What would possibly make a light rail faster than a bus on Central?
Don't answer things like grade separation, traffic light control, stuff like that.
All those things are possible with busses and are being implemented in other countries now.
( I'd love to see the Rapid Ride and other central busses control the lights on Central. )
OK, I won't answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mortimer
> More expensive ... operational numbers might be closer than expected.
Operational numbers are also going to be much more expensive.
( This doesn't have to be the case, but it is because currently, light rail is
just a local decision everywhere and thus has custom-engineered solutions
locally - rather than using national standards to make things cheaper.)
Didn't you just supply the reason why LR *might* actually be "operationally"
equivalent?
Again, I am not advocating it as a retrofit in existing ABQ neighborhoods,
I don't think that is a good idea, I'm just pointing out that some of the
assumptions behind the objections are no where near as valid as is being
claimed and since those assumptions drive how such modes of transport
are evaluated, they need to be challenged.
I was a bit excited when the Rail Runner was announced. But all along I felt it would be an expense that NM can just not afford. Some road maintenance has already taken a back seat, if my memory is correct. A few months ago Amtrack just posted a profit for the first time in 40 years.
Commuter rail works well in San Francisco and Wash D.C. I spent about seven years in Europe and the Orient and public transportation worked well. But I just do not believe the Rail Runner will ever be self paying for a long time, we can hope that there will be continued Federal funding to make it affordable. I have my fingers crossed, the same as when Eclipse came out...
Yeah, I am a train freak. Certainly I need some constraint but I won't accept any restraint on my thinking and writing. I am willing to be wrong instead of quiet.
I have visited a small two foot gauge railroad museum in nearby Portland, Maine. They put the Maine “two footers” just about anywhere so people and good could travel during mud season. I have also read about some of the places the Denver & Rio Grande glued their roadbed to the side of a cliff. The primary advantage of the narrow gauge is the relatively narrow right of way.
I have seen many of the new standard gauge light rail and I think they are just too big for the terrain and the load. I also think they are way too expensive. Cost is roughly proportional to weight and weight is roughly a cube function of size so a 2/3 scale train should cost about (talk about armpit estimates) 35% of the cost of a full size train. Oh, I just might, with proper help be able to build a pretty good rail road. Thanks.
Oh, I plan on retiring to Socorro and try and get a mining claim in the boonies. I expect to use the Railrunner next time we visit. Save a couple of day’s car rental.
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Trains In New Mexico?
