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You'll find a lot of drumming, dancing, singing, and other subversive activities. The biggest impact on the land is that all the dead wood in the area will be burned.
If you think 10-20,000 people can descend on a relatively fragile ecosystem and do nothing more than burn up all the dead wood....
99% will be peaceful, considerate, fun loving folks that wouldn't hurt a flea.
You'll find a lot of drumming, dancing, singing, and other subversive activities. The biggest impact on the land is that all the dead wood in the area will be burned.
This is simply not true.
Thousands upon thousands of people in that confined area for that amount of time without the proper infrastructure to handle their waste is going to have a hell of a lot more impact than a hunting camp or a troop of Boy Scouts out for a weekend. Those who can't quite visualize what is going to happen must not be familiar with that part of New Mexico or they wouldn't be dismissing this gathering as a non-impact event. s
Think of it this way. Would anyone approve of trench latrines at the Balloon Fiesta, or the State Fair, or the Santa Fe Indian Market? Of course not. Yet they seem to believe that it's acceptable near Cuba because, well...... it's just those people after all. This comes very close to environmental racism in my book.
Let me say again that the Rainbows choice of this venue and their insistence on not permitting the gathering or following easily met guidelines for low impact use of the forest speaks volumes of their irresponsibility.
I think the primary objection here should be that the size of the gathering overwhelms the towns nearby...but most of what I'm reading in this thread is overblown (destroy, devastate, on and on) verging on the hysterical. This makes other, more sensible, objections also seem unreasonable and reactionary by association and thus is really counterproductive.
I also read the Wyoming thread and found that similar in tone and content, including a couple of the same posters that appear on the NM thread. There were tons of second and third hand horror stories, but little real evidence that "locusts" were decending on the area used by this group.
One particularly angry and vocal woman posted that her son "had pictures" of the devastation wrought by the rainbow people, yet when asked to produce them she hatched a long story about her son moving 3 or 4 times, working all the time, and couldn't bear to impose on him to find the pics yadda-yadda. I know people who have pics of UFO's landing in their back yard, too, but they're just too busy to get back to me with them...Sheesh. "I have PROOF...but I left it in the car....
The fact is, these people have a right to gather on Federal land. It appears they make plans and provide a crude infrastructure to accomodate themselves and that they make a significant effort to clean up afterward.
The only quote I read (from a newspaper account) from a USFS person was a quibble he had about whether the rainbow cleanup crew was "restoring" as they said, or just "cleaning up" as he interpreted their work. Nothing about a big mess to clean up, nothing about "devastation" etc., only a difference of opinion about what to call the clean up effort. Of course there is going to be a footprint left on the land by such a gathering, but that's the story of this world..people leave their tracks behind. Some national parks are established to celebrate this...think Mesa Verde. The only way to avoid this is to wall off the land.
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want this gathering near me, just because of the size of the crowd, but it's a free country and these folks have a right to get together on the property owned by them and all of us. It's certainly not more damaging to the land than the logging programs operated at a loss to taxpayers by the forest service. The timber company's have a right to use the land, so says Congress and the USFS, and so do old and neo-hippies.
Take a deep breath and relax, people. It goes on for a week or so, I read, then it goes away. You'll get over it pretty quick, and they might spend some money in town.
When a National Park was established near my lifelong home in Michigan (Sleeping Bear Dunes Natl Lakeshore Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore (U.S. National Park Service) ) the outraged local folks widely predicted it would attract hippie and tree hugger types who would "come to town with a 5 dollar bill and one pair of underwear and not change either one". The park is now the number 1 attraction for visitors to the area.
The rainbow gathering thing is different, of course, but the near hysterical "debate" reminded me of that funny, yet boneheaded, line.
It goes on for a week or so, I read, then it goes away.
It doesn't go away unless someone goes to the effort to take it away. That's the point.
The logging canard and "rights" are irrelevant. The issue is that this many people in that area will do damage that they don't have to do if they would only take the forest and the residents of NM into consideration, which they refuse to do.
Water buffloes and portable toilets with daily service would virtually eliminate the problem. (No pun intended) The Rainbow family refuses to take even the most minimal steps to mitigate their impact on the residents and the environment.
I was just up above Colorado National Monument an hour ago. It's easy for me to go there as it takes all of 15 minutes to go to the visitors center. There are some decent camp spots up there and are clearly marked "fee area". In other words, you play, you pay. You fish, you pay for a license. You hunt, you pay for a license. You boat, you pay for a permit. Very simple.
If you think 10-20,000 people can descend on a relatively fragile ecosystem and do nothing more than burn up all the dead wood....
Compared to what logging companies, ranchers, 4 wheelers, people dumping trash, stupid campers, etc, do to these "fragile ecosystems", yes... it is trivial. If you don't believe me, then check it out.
But if they think they can go right into Cuba and buy their lattes' after they get tired of roughing it for a week, or in some cases, a few weeks, they are in for a surprise.
One particularly angry and vocal woman posted that her son "had pictures" of the devastation wrought by the rainbow people, yet when asked to produce them she hatched a long story about her son moving 3 or 4 times, working all the time, and couldn't bear to impose on him to find the pics yadda-yadda. I know people who have pics of UFO's landing in their back yard, too, but they're just too busy to get back to me with them...Sheesh. "I have PROOF...but I left it in the car....
I have pictures of naked women dancing at a Rainbow Gathering... can I post those?
I was just up above Colorado National Monument an hour ago. It's easy for me to go there as it takes all of 15 minutes to go to the visitors center. There are some decent camp spots up there and are clearly marked "fee area". In other words, you play, you pay. You fish, you pay for a license. You hunt, you pay for a license. You boat, you pay for a permit. Very simple.
I wonder if you are aware that the great majority of NFS and BLM land is open for camping and no fee is required. This is true of all the areas where the Rainbow Gatherings are held.
I am. I also believe that once you have X amount of people, you are required to get a permit from the forest service. I don't believe the cost is going to put any group into bankruptcy. But, as I and others have stated earlier, the Rainbow Gatherers have been able to circumvent the system. They claim they are not a group, there is no clear cut leader of the group, therefore they don't feel they have to pay, and don't pay.
This issue has apparently gone through courts, and the Rainbow people have a pretty good attack dog to aid their cause; the ACLU. As long as they have had these gatherings, and I'm aware they go back to the early 70's, they haven't paid for a permit yet. I call several thousand people a group. They call it a gathering.
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were decending on the area used by this group.
It goes on for a week or so, I read, then it goes away. You'll get over it pretty quick, and they might spend some money in town.
, yet boneheaded, line.
