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The point is that the FEDS should do more. It shouldn't be left to the states. I know the states are supposedly "sovereign", but we found out the limits of that almost 150 years ago.
Well, I think it's more of a political unwillingness to do anything about it at the federal level. Every year that goes by, the feds encroach more and more upon states' rights.
You're right. It IS a federal responsibility--and they have failed miserably.
Just look what the illegal alien pigs have done to Sierra Vista, AZ:
Trash and garbage everywhere. A beautiful desert environment ruined by their crap.
They should take the next 100 or so illegals they catch breaking and entering, put them in a chain gang, and make them clean up the mess.
They've done the same to spots in Texas, and if NM had the same volume crossing here, you'd see exactly the same thing. Not only do they trash the environment--they break into homes looking for food and something valuable to steal, steal produce out of gardens, kill and eat livestock...the list goes on.
It's not good for ANY border state, and it's time we all woke up.
People didn't think it such a big deal when they were just picking crops and making beds but when they started competing with mostly white men doing trade work the proverbial you know what hit the fan. Perhaps the tough employer ID checks should apply only to certain types of work. Do you really care whether the person in the fields or cleaning your motel room is documented?
I agree. Anyone who is struggling to feed their family in mexico and doesn't cross the border is crazy. Every "illegal" i've met is really just trying to find a way to help themselves. And the way immigration is set up, many of them couldn't come in legally anyway. I know a few people who tried several times to come in legally, and were denied. So, they crossed through laredo, took a bus to san antonio, and started lives in the US, and most eventually got citizenship. So, something has to be done, but, I do not at all agree with the approach AZ is taking.
Plus, I really don't think they lag our economy down. I remember reading that they end up contributing more to the economy in money they spend here and on sales tax and what not, so it ends up "canceling" whatever else they might lag on. The fact is, I doubt many naturally born americans are willing to pick Lettuce in Yuma in the summertime. For a lot of those people, the low wages and what would be harsh conditions to us is sometimes the only way they can feed their families. So any immigration reform has to be compassionate.
So JBM, you say that "something needs to be done" but you don't think the AZ law is the right way to do it.
What is your solution then?
As far as compassion, I am in favor of compassion towards American citizens in the border areas who are affected by the violence and the threat to their safety, as well as the trashing of their property. How about some "compassion" for Americans?
The sentiments that fuel this are similar to those that resulted in the Jim Crow laws in the South. Believe me it's not the upper middle and upper classes in this country that are clamoring for the crackdown but those further down the economic ladder who are having trouble competing in our knowledge based economy. Many people in skilled management jobs working for large companies like the fact they can get cheap nanny and lawn care and aren't too worried people coming across the border are going to take their jobs.
The sentiments that fuel this are similar to those that resulted in the Jim Crow laws in the South. Believe me it's not the upper middle and upper classes in this country that are clamoring for the crackdown but those further down the economic ladder who are having trouble competing in our knowledge based economy. Many people in skilled management jobs working for large companies like the fact they can get cheap nanny and lawn care and aren't too worried people coming across the border are going to take their jobs.
The bottom line question still remains, i.e., has the person in question entered the USA LEGALLY? Yes or No.
If the answer is no, then they have broken the law of this country and have no right to be here. Also, there are indeed illegals who have priviledged themselves by use of the social safety net which was established for the Citizens of this country. Should we merely nod and wink at that also?
If we sit around and do nothing then we are complicit in the law breaking activity of illegal immigration, and that makes us a corrupt people.
Sadly, and as we all know, corruption runs deep in Mexican society. Corruption is the reason why Mexico, the 14th largest country in the world, with its vast natural resources, two oceans, proximity to the USA, and hard working/intelligent Citizenry is unable to wallow beyond its sad state of affairs.
What should be Latin America's first first-world country is a poorly managed quagmire which has lost any visage of the potential it once aspired to have as an equal trading partner under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). Its ingrained culture of corruption, especially by its elected officials (I'm getting visions of former President Salinas de Gortari) is what places so many of its people in a position of having to choose between drug trafficing or coming to the USA illegally. Drug trafficing, illegal immigration, law breaking...all are fruits of corruption.
Should we allow ourselves to be counted amongst the corrupt; the ones who turn a blind eye to what is logically a violation of the law?
Are we expected to do nothing now that CORRUPTION has entered our property and is audaciously sitting on our front porch?
What would you do if an intruder trespassed into your property, sat on your porch and declared..."I'm not moving from here and you can't make me go!"
For many of us, our first reaction would be to call the police and maintain an eye on the trespasser to ensure he/she won't get inside our homes. Some of us would rightfully brandish our weapons to let the trespasser understand the consequences of violating the sanctity of our home. But, what happens when hours, days and weeks go by and the police has yet to arrive?
At what point do we, the law abiding Citizens of this country, decide when enough is enough?
For those of us who live in border states, the time has come...ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!
Also, desertsun, if you believe NM ranks as one of the worst states for quality of life,
than
please
leave.
You're not doing anyone here any favors by spewing racial epithets and bagging on the place many of us love and call home.
I am leaving next month, and this is my native state, I am a New Mexican and I can say as I please about my state, but Im glad you dont like what I have to say cause I dont say things to please people, I keep it real. And New Mexico does rank low in almost every category, thats not exactly quality of life but I do love certain parts of New Mexico and I wouldnt want this place to change much. Do you love Hobbs as much as ABQ, if not you should leave cause Hobbs residents may love thier city, do you see how dumb this is? If you dont like it that many people in NM support the AZ law,then you should leave, San Francisco will take you.
Why dont you move to Santa Fe and invite the illegals over.
also.....a Hispanic guy at my work who is going to AZ next month said he has no problem being asked, he said he will just show proof, not that big of a deal, and another Mexican guy at work said he could care less, he's not illegal so he has nothing to worry about,my guess is Burquebinder, you must support breaking the law.
Last edited by desert sun; 05-02-2010 at 05:45 PM..
Im only in my late 20's and I have heard plenty of Spanish people call Mexicans we*backs, and Im half White and Spanish by the way, and people do use the word N--ger, like n-gger rigged(fixing something) n--ger toes(certain peanut), n--ger hill (hill somewhere near Portales) and I have heard Spanish/Mexicans refer to Blacks as n--gers, actually I heard somebody yesterday say it.
desertsun, you've got to be kidding. Or out of your mind. Or just completely culturally incompetent.
I would like to see a bill here that STARTS by sending employers of illegal aliens to jail for a nice hefty sentence; that might put a stop to the problerm.
I've often talked briefly on the N.M. forum of the two years I was a resident.
I worked over two decades in power plant construction and got to know hundreds of craftsmen, including well over a couple hundred Hispanics. Some were of the skilled trades; electricians, ironworkers, millwrights, etc. But most of the Hispanics were laborers and cement finishers. Has anyone on this forum ever ran a jackhammer breaking up concrete? Run a tamperer? Or better yet, worked on a laydown machine on a paving crew pushing a shovel in a spreader box?
Well, it's *** **** hard work, I'll tell you that! They worked harder and got paid less than any other craftsmen on the job. In construction you call it 8 for 8; 8 hours work for 8 hours pay. The skilled trades respected the laborers as much as any other trade. Which is more than I can say for some of the contractors I worked for. It pi*s*s me off when I hear the upper crust of society carping about the overpaid union worker.
I got involved in union construction in early 1970 (Teamster's Union). I know for a fact the laborers benefits were poor, to be polite. How do I know? Because the Teamsters benefits were no vacation, no pension, and 10 cents an hour health and welfare benefits. It took the Laborers union a long time to build up benefits, a long time to have a living wage. They worked with their arms, legs, and backs until they couldn't stand up anymore and went out on disability (like I had to do). And their pay scale was nothing to write home about, but they worked. And took pride in their work.
I've seen contractors treat employees like cannon fodder, particularly the semi skilled trades. And particularly the contractor I worked for on the N.M. pipeline job I was on. All the laborers on the tie-in and the clean up crew were Hispanic guys, many of them at that time were in their 50's. I think of the treatment some of them got and I just shake my head.
How do some of those laborers feel about today's goings on? Unhappy would be the word. I'm in contact with a few of them to this day. They are unhappy that construction firms hire illegals freely, in a lot of cases not giving a second thought to put out feelers to hire local labor. They are unhappy that wages are um, disgusting. They have descendents who have lived in the Southwest for generations, going back several generations, in fact. Their friends came to this country the old way.
I hear you, Double H. I worked for an engineering construction firm in Midland as a project scheduler...and while I usually worked at a desk in the home office, I did 2-3 temporary field jobs in both Texas and Mississippi.
I watched many concrete pours, dirt work (excavation, filling in, tamping, etc.), piping, structural steel, et al...and I wondered how they tolerated such labor-intensive work in such heat and humidity.
I have nothing but the utmost respect and awe of the workers who did such outstanding jobs in such difficult conditions. At the time I was there, the workers were all legal, and I had conversations off and on with many of the construction superintendents about the work and workers that they had at the time.
I also grew up in West Texas ranching country, and many of the ranchers employed Mexican workers with green cards. I knew a number of them over the years, and I also respect those who came and did it the right way. I have known several of these workers over the years, and respect those workers also. So many of them were such sweet, good people.
This past history is why it shocks me today to see such meaness along the US-Mexico border today. It really isn't the world I grew up in during the 50s, 60s and 70s.
Given the current conditions, I have NO patience nor sympathy with those who won't do it the right way.
There are a limited number of green cards available--but that does not mean that we owe those who don't get green cards anything at all.
I'm sorry that Mexico and the other countries to the south (Nicaragua, Guatemala, et al) can't provide jobs for the poorest of the poor, but that does not mean that the US owes them anything, period!
desertsun, you've got to be kidding. Or out of your mind. Or just completely culturally incompetent.
Im not kidding at all,and you must live in a fairytale land if you have never heard things like that here, are you even from New Mexico? I've heard people talk like that growing up, maybe you were kept indoors all day and home schooled, I dont know.
and please explain why someone is culturally incompetent because he has heard people say bad things about others?
and I wanna let you know that I feel bad for you, you know that sometimes you will hear things you dont wanna hear, sometimes you will see things you dont wanna see but that is life, life aint always peachy.
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