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So I finally get a really decent lot # on an apartment and get contacted shortly after the log #s were released. I was excited because my salary falls perfectly in the 70% AMI. The 70% AMI was 55k-76k, and last year I made 65k. After sending in all my documents I got told that based off my YTD so far this year that my calculated salary for the year will be a little over 77k and that I’m being rejected because of that. Now long story short, I work for the DSNY (sanitation worker), and on this job we work a lot of overtime when it snows, and since we had a little bit of snow in February-March I had a few pay checks where I made significantly more than I would make regularly, and because of that my YTD so far this year is a bit higher than it would normally be, but now that it’s spring and almost summer I’m not making anymore overtime like that. The same thing happened last year and I still ended the year off with 65k. I got a $1000 seniority raise this year so I’ll pretty much be earning the same amount (maybe slightly more) that I earned last year. So I spoke to the person that I’ve been in contact with in regards to my application on the phone about this and explained everything. Pretty much explaining that I will not be earning anywhere near 77k by the end of this year and that my YTD is an inaccurate representation of how much I will be ending off this year, and that since I work for the city my salary is very public and transparent. She told me that it’s just how they calculate everything and that she would have to reject me but I can attempt to appeal. So I just submitted my appeal and I’m waiting to hear back. I’m just wondering if anybody has ever had a situation like this before and has any advice for me moving forward with this. I’ve been applying for years and I finally thought this was going to be the one. I think it’d be very unfair for them to just determine what my salary is going to be this year because I know it’s not going to be that high. I’d be very upset if I don’t end up winning this appeal and then my salary at the end of the year ends up being like 68k or something and they rejected me wrongly. I included in my appeal that I would be willing to send them any additional documents that may prove that my salary would not end up being that high. Thank you for any advice anybody may have!
Location: Read the Marketing Handbook, and Income a Guide.
2,107 posts, read 1,708,982 times
Reputation: 504
Appeals can work. Sometimes it takes more than one appeal. I should say now, I don’t know if you are correct or not about the income calculation. I do know people make mistakes with math and with policies and they might have calculated your income incorrectly.
Check and be sure both you and they are using the AMI%s that went into to effect on April 1.
Can your union assist you getting a consultation with CPA accountant?
Are you allowed to refuse overtime? Could you make a case that you will not accept any overtime for the rest of the year to keep your income at a qualified level?
Appeals can work. Sometimes it takes more than one appeal. I should say now, I don’t know if you are correct or not about the income calculation. I do know people make mistakes with math and with policies and they might have calculated your income incorrectly.
Check and be sure both you and they are using the AMI%s that went into to effect on April 1.
Can your union assist you getting a consultation with CPA accountant?
Are you allowed to refuse overtime? Could you make a case that you will not accept any overtime for the rest of the year to keep your income at a qualified level?
I mean the way that they calculated everything, they are correct. If you factor my YTD the way that they did, it would I appear that I’m taking home 77k this year. But I know for a fact that I’m not because I will not be taking home paychecks like I was earlier this year. The case that I’m trying to make is that if they look at my more recent pay stubs , they can tell that my weekly take home is much less now than some of those weeks during my snow. And yes I can turn down overtime and definitely continue to decrease the amounts I earn per week, but I don’t even get offered anywhere near that amount of overtime anyway without any snow. The point that I’m making is that they’re accusing me of taking home 77k this year when there is a 0% of that happening even if I take any overtime offered. The only possible way I take that home is if we get hit with major snowstorms by the end of the year and I’m working insane amounts of overtime as a result but that’s very unlikely and there’s obviously no way of telling. But asking my union about a COA accountant might be useful! Thanks for the advice!
I mean the way that they calculated everything, they are correct. If you factor my YTD the way that they did, it would I appear that I’m taking home 77k this year. But I know for a fact that I’m not because I will not be taking home paychecks like I was earlier this year. The case that I’m trying to make is that if they look at my more recent pay stubs , they can tell that my weekly take home is much less now than some of those weeks during my snow. And yes I can turn down overtime and definitely continue to decrease the amounts I earn per week, but I don’t even get offered anywhere near that amount of overtime anyway without any snow. The point that I’m making is that they’re accusing me of taking home 77k this year when there is a 0% of that happening even if I take any overtime offered. The only possible way I take that home is if we get hit with major snowstorms by the end of the year and I’m working insane amounts of overtime as a result but that’s very unlikely and there’s obviously no way of telling. But asking my union about a COA accountant might be useful! Thanks for the advice!
The income is calculated three ways and the max is selected / one of the calculations averages is 6 paystubs averaged out and that is multiplied by your pay intervals. If you are paid on 1st / 15th of the month your average will be multiplied by 24. If its twice a month then it will be multiplied by 26.
If you submitted paystubs that have overtime, you could try arguing with newer pay stubs that have lower income to be calculated in the average. As proof I would have submitted an excel sheet showing all my 24 or 26 paystubs for the entire year to show cyclicality. They are correct in assuming your income but your rebuttal has to be concise and also has to make it very easy to understand why their calcualtion isnt accurate.
You are going to be at the agents mercy and can appeal again if you are rejected, so I would recommend getting all your information gathered to prove the trends etc, they are folllowing HPD's reccomendation about averaging the paychecks and using that as the highest number.
Maybe getting your boss or supervisor also write a supporting affidavit stating how your income can be cyclical and you will not be getting more overtime, but it can look weird and considered inducing eligibility so your proof has to be legit and accurate
The income is calculated three ways and the max is selected / one of the calculations averages is 6 paystubs averaged out and that is multiplied by your pay intervals. If you are paid on 1st / 15th of the month your average will be multiplied by 24. If its twice a month then it will be multiplied by 26.
If you submitted paystubs that have overtime, you could try arguing with newer pay stubs that have lower income to be calculated in the average. As proof I would have submitted an excel sheet showing all my 24 or 26 paystubs for the entire year to show cyclicality. They are correct in assuming your income but your rebuttal has to be concise and also has to make it very easy to understand why their calcualtion isnt accurate.
You are going to be at the agents mercy and can appeal again if you are rejected, so I would recommend getting all your information gathered to prove the trends etc, they are folllowing HPD's reccomendation about averaging the paychecks and using that as the highest number.
Maybe getting your boss or supervisor also write a supporting affidavit stating how your income can be cyclical and you will not be getting more overtime, but it can look weird and considered inducing eligibility so your proof has to be legit and accurate
good luck and hope you prevail
Yes, compiling all of my paystubs so far this year might be the thing to do. I wish they would just consider my salary from last year off of my W-2 that I sent them because that’s an accurate representation of how much I will be making this year. I told the women on the phone to at I wish I took home 77k this year haha but I know for a fact that I’m lucky to even crack 70k by the end of the year (which still qualifies me). I would be willing to send them any documents they would need so I hope this works! Thank you for the advice!
Location: Read the Marketing Handbook, and Income a Guide.
2,107 posts, read 1,708,982 times
Reputation: 504
I read someplace, perhaps the Handook, that the appeal does not go back to the original agent.
You can consider gathering some, none, or all of the following: Find a policy statement that says you are allowed to refuse overtime, and/or get a brief notarized statement from a relevant supervisor that says you can refuse overtime. Look at your past years of earnings and tally the numbers of hours of overtime you worked. Look at that data. How many hours for each of the past years? What is the average for the past five years? Take the highest number or hours of overtime in a recent year and multiply it by your present overtime rate, if you add that dollar amount to annual earnings forecast for this year would it put you over the limit? I don’t know if they can accept this style of calculating but it might aid your case.
Another thought, a slow appeal process might help you. If you’re very most recent pay statements are used there will come a time when the overtime pay is far enough in the past that it might not be counted anymore.
I get that you want this but don’t let your emotions get in the way, take up too much time or space.
I read someplace, perhaps the Handook, that the appeal does not go back to the original agent.
You can consider gathering some, none, or all of the following: Find a policy statement that says you are allowed to refuse overtime, and/or get a brief notarized statement from a relevant supervisor that says you can refuse overtime. Look at your past years of earnings and tally the numbers of hours of overtime you worked. Look at that data. How many hours for each of the past years? What is the average for the past five years? Take the highest number or hours of overtime in a recent year and multiply it by your present overtime rate, if you add that dollar amount to annual earnings forecast for this year would it put you over the limit? I don’t know if they can accept this style of calculating but it might aid your case.
Another thought, a slow appeal process might help you. If you’re very most recent pay statements are used there will come a time when the overtime pay is far enough in the past that it might not be counted anymore.
I get that you want this but don’t let your emotions get in the way, take up too much time or space.
Very useful info! Thank you! Trust me I’m willing to send anything to prove my argument. What also worries me is that there is only 1 one-bedroom and 2 studios in my AMI so I want to fight this as fast as possible so nobody above my log # snatches them. If that’s even possible.
Yes, compiling all of my paystubs so far this year might be the thing to do. I wish they would just consider my salary from last year off of my W-2 that I sent them because that’s an accurate representation of how much I will be making this year. I told the women on the phone to at I wish I took home 77k this year haha but I know for a fact that I’m lucky to even crack 70k by the end of the year (which still qualifies me). I would be willing to send them any documents they would need so I hope this works! Thank you for the advice!
they have to choose the highest of 3 calculations of income so even if they considered last years w2 your current projected income is higher and that will be chosen.
I think compiling all the paystuvs over the past two year period is a good start to show variance in earnings between the 1st and 3rd quarter.
Not sure if refusing overtime is normal for income consideration, if I was an agent I'd see it as inducing eligibilty, better to stick with the pov that overtime is cyclical (if your previous years income varaince can be proven this claim is credible) if not then it wont hold much weight.
I am assuming yes but just wanted to make sure you are looking at the updated HUD ami ranges. Your best scenario is also making your own calculation using the most recent pay stubs you have (assuming you have at least 1-2 new ones since your previous submission). That can help lower the projections when averaged out
The handbook says and has a clear example that if there's a raise, pay cut, etc and say the last 2 of 4 paystubs reflect that then it should be based on those 2 paychecks averaged, multiplied by 52 -- that it would not be an average scenario. So the same SHOULD apply here. That they factor in those overtime hours for that one part of the year, but not as an average for the whole year.
I haven't been selected so I don't have advice about winning the appeal but it seems like others do. But I would directly quote the handbook and HPD income calculation guide, which proves your point.
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