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Hello everyone hope your day has been lovely so far. I have seen there are plenty of threads on here that are similar to mine and ask that you please bear with me. And I apologize for this being so long and I would like to thank each and everyone one of you who respond a sincere thank you in advance. Most of you seem to be friendly people on this forum and it is much appreciated.
Why we are excited:
My husband and I are moving to NY in July, we have jobs lined up here already. The salaries are quite higher then what we both earn in our current location combined and we have visited and decided that we liked NYC. There is really no place quite like it.
My husband and i have been happily married for two years and we have twin girls who are two years old. We are all originally from North Carolina, Charlotte to be exact. I am a licensed Social Worker and he is an Accountant or CPA. I will be working all over Brooklyn as well as in Queens while he will be working in Manhattan's Financial District. With this job my husband will be making over 160k annually, and we are looking for affluent neighborhoods to live and raise our girls in.
I am currently doing extensive research on neighborhoods in Brooklyn or Queens. I like Queens because some of the areas have a nice suburban feel to it, which is what we are used to except our houses here are not nearly as close together. We also have a real estate agent who is working with us and we want a big yard with lots of space as we are bringing our 3 dogs along with us. I have looked for apartments in the past and found that most landlords are not willing to accept pets, let alone 3 large dogs, so we decided that purchasing a home would be the best option to fit our needs. We already have two cars and it would just be more convenient for us to have our own garage as parking can become a hassle up there.
We would just adore a neighborhood that has great shopping close by, good daycare's and schools (willing to go private if need be), low crime rate, and friendly, welcoming neighbors nearby.
Our Concerns
We are a upper class black family and we have heard, not from real estate agents but by friends who moved there and a couple of friends that are natives who currently live down here, that some neighborhoods in Brooklyn and Queens are not accepting of black families. Particularly in southern Brooklyn and they had some really beautiful homes there. We have had some real estate agents turn us down, even just for renting, but who had proceeded to allow a white family to rent the house. When I had confronted to her about it she had honestly said that she believes that the natives in that area (which was a neighborhood in southern Brooklyn) would not accept or appreciate if a black family had moved in. I could not believe what I was hearing. We have never experienced anything like this where we live. Granted I had visited the neighborhood in question and we were stared at, but not enough for me to feel uncomfortable.
And I am asking for honest opinions about the situation. Since I will be working all around Brooklyn and Queens as a professional Social Worker I do not want to encounter problems with people who have negative preconceived notions about me due to my skin color. How bad and open is the racism there? I don't want to believe that all of these neighborhoods are like this, but I do not want to endanger myself nor my families well being. I choose this career for a reason and would never turn anyone down due to their skin color.
Have any black people had negative experiences in these kind of neighborhoods in Brooklyn or Queens? Does anyone on this forum lives or has previously lived in these areas? The mostly white areas with very few blacks and other races living there? I am aware of the incident in Howard Beach, and I will not believe that all of southern Brooklyn's neighborhoods are like this when it comes to race.
Hello everyone hope your day has been lovely so far. I have seen there are plenty of threads on here that are similar to mine and ask that you please bear with me. And I apologize for this being so long and I would like to thank each and everyone one of you who respond a sincere thank you in advance. Most of you seem to be friendly people on this forum and it is much appreciated.
Why we are excited:
My husband and I are moving to NY in July, we have jobs lined up here already. The salaries are quite higher then what we both earn in our current location combined and we have visited and decided that we liked NYC. There is really no place quite like it.
My husband and i have been happily married for two years and we have twin girls who are two years old. We are all originally from North Carolina, Charlotte to be exact. I am a licensed Social Worker and he is an Accountant or CPA. I will be working all over Brooklyn as well as in Queens while he will be working in Manhattan's Financial District. With this job my husband will be making over 160k annually, and we are looking for affluent neighborhoods to live and raise our girls in.
I am currently doing extensive research on neighborhoods in Brooklyn or Queens. I like Queens because some of the areas have a nice suburban feel to it, which is what we are used to except our houses here are not nearly as close together. We also have a real estate agent who is working with us and we want a big yard with lots of space as we are bringing our 3 dogs along with us. I have looked for apartments in the past and found that most landlords are not willing to accept pets, let alone 3 large dogs, so we decided that purchasing a home would be the best option to fit our needs. We already have two cars and it would just be more convenient for us to have our own garage as parking can become a hassle up there.
We would just adore a neighborhood that has great shopping close by, good daycare's and schools (willing to go private if need be), low crime rate, and friendly, welcoming neighbors nearby.
Our Concerns
We are a upper class black family and we have heard, not from real estate agents but by friends who moved there and a couple of friends that are natives who currently live down here, that some neighborhoods in Brooklyn and Queens are not accepting of black families. Particularly in southern Brooklyn and they had some really beautiful homes there. We have had some real estate agents turn us down, even just for renting, but who had proceeded to allow a white family to rent the house. When I had confronted to her about it she had honestly said that she believes that the natives in that area (which was a neighborhood in southern Brooklyn) would not accept or appreciate if a black family had moved in. I could not believe what I was hearing. We have never experienced anything like this where we live. Granted I had visited the neighborhood in question and we were stared at, but not enough for me to feel uncomfortable.
And I am asking for honest opinions about the situation. Since I will be working all around Brooklyn and Queens as a professional Social Worker I do not want to encounter problems with people who have negative preconceived notions about me due to my skin color. How bad and open is the racism there? I don't want to believe that all of these neighborhoods are like this, but I do not want to endanger myself nor my families well being. I choose this career for a reason and would never turn anyone down due to their skin color.
Have any black people had negative experiences in these kind of neighborhoods in Brooklyn or Queens? Does anyone on this forum lives or has previously lived in these areas? The mostly white areas with very few blacks and other races living there? I am aware of the incident in Howard Beach, and I will not believe that all of southern Brooklyn's neighborhoods are like this when it comes to race.
Hi, I'm from southern Brooklyn. That was a lovely introduction you
wrote there until this part: {We are an upper class black family}.
That's enough for me, Goodbye!
Ok seriously.... Southern Brooklyn is not that racist. Although there
are not a lot of blacks here compare to other ethnic groups, I do
see some blacks living here no problem. Southern Brooklyn used to
be 80+% white, now is about 60-65% with a mix of other ethnicites
like Asian, Hispanic, and Arabs. I think the most racist ones already
left Southern Brooklyn, the story you told sounds like from the 90s.
And most of the Southern Brooklyn neighborhoods are just working
to middle class, they are not upper class.
I'm not black, however I am a minority and while personally I believe there is some racism here in NYC. I believe it's more about wealth divide now than racism.
If you are looking at really affluent areas and nice townhouses or apartments. In my opinion, only color that matter is green. Meaning your competition is probably really about how much money you and you're spouse makes. While 160k is impressive salary, it is a new job and probably no previous history of making that kind of money in past which is a negative. Plus there is a lot of wealth up here and I have a feeling that someone else who was making more money or have more money was looking more favorable than you and your family as tenants. 3 big dogs don't help either. Not to mention rental market in NYC has been on streak for few years now and rent is pretty damn strict/competitive for nicer places.
If you really are concerned with racism holding you back on finding a place. Maybe change up the area of search where it's a lot more diverse in Brooklyn like downtown brooklyn, park slope, williamsburg, etc. In my opinion, if you want to raise 3 big dogs of any breed, you'd be better off in suburbs or further out where you can have a house with backyard. Almost all buildings and landlord in affluent areas will have some size and/or breed restriction in NYC. As for garage and such, that's really premium and it'll cost tons unless you plan to lease a spot or two and even that won't be cheap.
If you are considering buying and looking for say 4bedroom/2-3 bath in affluent area in Brooklyn like Brooklyn Heights. You're looking at 1-3mil starting price tag and it probably won't have parking. Property tax is cheap compared to suburbs but schools typically suck and private tuition for two will be more expensive than property tax of suburbs so take that into account too.
Lastly, please don't say or write things like I consider ourselves to be affluent blacks and etc. It offends some people and you totally come across the wrong way. As I stated, 160k is a impressive number and probably consider to be affluent in NC. But it's far from what people would consider affluent in NYC because of concentration of wealth up here. More importantly it makes you sound like one of those rich snobby transplant coming into NYC that everybody bashes and hates.
I'm not black, however I am a minority and while personally I believe there is some racism here in NYC. I believe it's more about wealth divide now than racism.
If you are looking at really affluent areas and nice townhouses or apartments. In my opinion, only color that matter is green. Meaning your competition is probably really about how much money you and you're spouse makes. While 160k is impressive salary, it is a new job and probably no previous history of making that kind of money in past which is a negative. Plus there is a lot of wealth up here and I have a feeling that someone else who was making more money or have more money was looking more favorable than you and your family as tenants. 3 big dogs don't help either. Not to mention rental market in NYC has been on streak for few years now and rent is pretty damn strict/competitive for nicer places.
If you really are concerned with racism holding you back on finding a place. Maybe change up the area of search where it's a lot more diverse in Brooklyn like downtown brooklyn, park slope, williamsburg, etc. In my opinion, if you want to raise 3 big dogs of any breed, you'd be better off in suburbs or further out where you can have a house with backyard. Almost all buildings and landlord in affluent areas will have some size and/or breed restriction in NYC. As for garage and such, that's really premium and it'll cost tons unless you plan to lease a spot or two and even that won't be cheap.
If you are considering buying and looking for say 4bedroom/2-3 bath in affluent area in Brooklyn like Brooklyn Heights. You're looking at 1-3mil starting price tag and it probably won't have parking. Property tax is cheap compared to suburbs but schools typically suck and private tuition for two will be more expensive than property tax of suburbs so take that into account too.
Lastly, please don't say or write things like I consider ourselves to be affluent blacks and etc. It offends some people and you totally come across the wrong way. As I stated, 160k is a impressive number and probably consider to be affluent in NC. But it's far from what people would consider affluent in NYC because of concentration of wealth up here. More importantly it makes you sound like one of those rich snobby transplant coming into NYC that everybody bashes and hates.
Good luck.
They are part of that elitest transplant mind set. If I was them I would try to check out downtown brooklyn area, harlem, or maybe lic. If you want more bang for your buck check out pelham parkway in the bronx.
Welcome! The first thing I learned in college is black skin brings the property value down. It really does. They are probably afraid if blacks start moving in whites will not buy in their neighborhood. Thus, the property value will go down. Whites have the majority of the wealth. We live in precarious times and there is a lot of inventory available. While $160,000 is an impressive salary, it won't go far for a family of 4 in NYC. I would classify you as middle-class. My friend is a doctor and she lives in Freeport, Long Island. She makes more than that alone and she works extra shifts to make extra money. I think you need to make a budget to determine how much you can afford. NYC is EXPENSIVE.
Child care for twin girls may cost nearly $2000 a month alone. You also need to make sure it is in a good school district. Most of the middle class black people I know live on Long Island. They live in Elmont, Valley Stream and Freeport. I do not know how the schools are. Taxes on Long Island are astronomically high ($7,000- $10,000). I also know a middle-class family that lives in the Laurelton section of Queens.
Do you have a 20% down payment for a home? closing costs? 8 month emergency fund? Find a agent that can cater to your needs. Maybe the agent you are working with can recommend someone that can help you. I would never live in a community that did not welcome me. Don't buy until you have lived here for at least one year. They are plenty of homes available for rent. Good luck!
Sadly, housing discrimination is alive and well. Check out this recent quote from Bloomberg.com:
“Some of the residents here were so concerned about blacks moving in, they didn’t even notice the influx of Asians,” said Nick Venezia, 33, manager of Ben Bay Realty Co. in Brooklyn." Brooklyn Enclave Helps New York Top Los Angeles as U.S. Diversity Capital - Bloomberg
As others have stated, I don't think you have the funds to buy a home in NYC right away. Besides, you should really get to know the city before you buy. If you don't want to head to the suburbs, perhaps you can find a garden apartment with a yard in Fort Greene? You may also want to check out some of the landmarked areas of Clinton Hill. Both neighborhoods have a tradition of upper middle class black families. And if you haven't considered the better parts of Bed-Stuy, don't believe the bad press about the entire neighborhood.
If you want a larger house with a yard, check out Cambria Heights or Laurelton in Queens. Both are predominately Black/West Indian and solid middle class (which is what your salary is in NY - not affluent). The new schools chancellor lives in Cambria Heights, along with a lot of teachers, doctors, nurses, lawyers, accountants, engineers, business owners, etc. It's a little over an hour commute into the city by bus and train or by express bus. A 1600 sq. ft. 4 bedroom brick tudor house, with finished basement, garage, on a tree-lined street with yard will run $400K-$600K depending on how updated it is inside.
The schools aren't great but if you're involved in your kids' education and your kids work hard, they'll do fine. I grew up in Cambria Heights, went away to law school and moved back with my own family. My twin daughters went to public elementary and jr high in the neighborhood, got into good high schools, and both are going to Columbia in the fall.
There are a lot of young families mixed in with older residents who have lived here 30-40 years and take good care of their property. It is NOT quiet in the summer - people hang outside, constant cookouts, late night backyard dances and block parties but nobody complains or calls the cops because that's just the culture of the neighborhood - and you can always crash the party looking for good bbq . On the downside, the main commercial streets are a bit gritty and I don't walk down Linden alone at night.
Some of the comments here just confirm the notion that people are more interested in bringing white families here more than anything else... And funny thing was that I was crucified on other threads when I mentioned how I noticed this on city data...
To the Original Poster, I apologize for some of the rudeness of people's comments... sometimes on these threads you will find people who only help to support the stereotype of New Yorkers being rude... To be completely honest, yes there is still racism in NYC but to be fair it is nowhere near where it used to be... 10-15 years ago I moved into my neighborhood of Ridgewood in Queens and it was mostly a European/Hispanic though more European neighborhood... Now it is much more diverse and still remains a decent working to middle class neighborhood...
This has become true for many other neighborhoods that have shifted in demographics over time... Areas like Kew Gardens and Forest Hills which at one point were traditionally considered all-white neighborhoods now have a mix of middle class black, hispanic and asian families that contribute to the great diversity of this city...
Actually Forest Hills moreso than anything else seems like a perfect neighborhood for you. It's a very nice neighborhood. It just opened up a brand new high school on Metropolitan Avenue which has received great reviews and while it is still majority white, there is a diversity there where I don't think you will have problems buying or living in that area...
Granted, there are ignorant people everywhere that will be stuck in their stereotypical mindset no matter the situation... that being said the number of people that are like that continue to diminish as time goes on and I think that maybe not in Brooklyn but in Queens there are a number of areas that will fit what you are looking for since overall Queens has a more suburban feel to it...
Areas to consider... I'll throw mine in the mix since I love my neighborhood... Ridgewood, Forest Hills, Woodhaven (try to look for areas that are not near the Brooklyn borders though, same applies for Ridgewood), Kew Gardens, Cambria Heights, Bayside (though it can be a bit expensive depending on where you are looking), Jackson Heights, Richmond Hill, etc.
And if you are looking in Brooklyn I agree that Williamsburg has become a very nice area especially crossing the bridge on the Northside... Also Clinton Hill has some very nice parts but be careful that you are not conned into buying or renting near the Bed-stuy border because it becomes more shady around there... And I don't know what area you were looking at in South brooklyn but to me South Brooklyn isn't that great an area to begin with so I wouldn't worry too much about that...
Wish you the best on your search and ignore the ridiculous comments on here that scream prejudice or racism... believe me, in this city that isn't the norm unlike many other cities throughout the country especially in the west or down south...
goodlife36 : ( sad comment. What college was that?
OP
If your good old american dollar is not good there take it somewhere else.
I think you need a new realtor.
Please correct me if I am wrong but
I thought it was against the law for real estate agents to make those types of comments.
Ive learned the samething through back a few years ago in my race and ethnicity class at John Jay College. It was said and believed if a black moved into a white niegborhoood the price of the home will drop considerably example like Roosevelt Long Island in the 70s and 80s. Sadly when a white moves into a black neighorhood the price of the homes start to increase and prices the blacks out eventually. These two NC couple should avoid authentic traditional NYC neigborhoods of South Brooklyn and try to move in and around other professionals who are like them regardleses of race, but are transplants. Transplants tend to live around other Transplants and not with antsy local natives who could be ignorant or not.
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