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The real question is would you live in a crappy apt in a great neighborhood.
Are there crappy apts in great neighborhoods? The notion is literally oxymoronic. How can it be a 'great' neighborhood, if there are crappy apts? The fact is that its not a great neighborhood.
Only a 4th flr floor thru Brownstone apt could be crappy and in a great neighborhood. Other than that, BE REALISTIC! If the only reason (and what other reason could there be) to take the crappy apt is because it is all you can afford, then the reality is that you CANNOT afford the neighborhood, and you're just fooling yourself!
Its smarter to take a better apt in a fair neighborhood (or get a roommate and a good in apt in the neighborhood), and focus on improving yourself so that once you have achieved, THEN reward yourself with a great apt in the great neighborhood.
Better to deal with reality, set goals for yourself, focus and achieve them. Better to be in a place and hate it so much, that you are compelled to expend all your efforts to better your situation. I know, I've been there!
The ONLY exception is when a neighborhood and/or apt is so bad as to be detrimental to your ability to acheive. In such cases, the number one priority is to remove yourself from the negative environment. Fortunately, this is the case for just a few.
Friend bought an apartment in Brooklyn Heights around 1970...2 bedroom for $17,000. Nice place, top floor with roof that they could go out on but are afraid of perforations. One apartment per floor.
But it's 6 the floor PLUS a long set of ouside stairs. I think that is the legal limit without an elevator.
Ceilings are faily high also so it's a LONG 6 flights +stoop.
Walking up the overheated staircase in a parka in the dead of Winter, I thought I was going to have a stroke 3/4 of the way up. Walking down not so bad.
The owners are getting quite old and it is just a matter of time before they cannot handle the stairs anymore.
Owner happily said, "you know they sold the second floor for $1 Million"...be was beaming with dollar signs. I said nothing but mentally divided that MILLION by a factor of 2 and wondered whether I should not have divided by 3.
It would be like a Roach Motel for me: "I'd walk IN and never walk out." I'd get a rocking chair and sit in the window counting the days until my death.
Personally, I think they might find that superbly located apartment nearly unsellable...unless to a pair of newlywed GYMNASTS. I did 3 flights plus stoop for 15 years in my 30's-40's...doable then but I just couldn't handle anything higher any more.
And the worst: Crawling down 6 flights and realizing: "Oh Shytte, I left my wallet upstairs!" or "Oh yes, Mr. King, you'll need those crutches for 3 weeks."
Last edited by Kefir King; 11-01-2011 at 07:53 AM..
Friend bought an apartment in Brooklyn Heights around 1970...2 bedroom for $17,000. Nice place, top floor with roof that they could go out on but are afraid of perforations. One apartment per floor.
But it's 6 the floor PLUS a long set of ouside stairs. I think that is the legal limit without an elevator.
Ceilings are faily high also so it's a LONG 6 flights +stoop.
Walking up the overheated staircase in a parka in the dead of Winter, I thought I was going to have a stroke 3/4 of the way up. Walking down not so bad.
The owners are getting quite old and it is just a matter of time before they cannot handle the stairs anymore.
Owner happily said, "you know they sold the second floor for $1 Million"...be was beaming with dollar signs. I said nothing but mentally divided that MILLION by a factor of 2 and wondered whether I should not have divided by 3.
It would be like a Roach Motel for me: "I'd walk IN and never walk out." I'd get a rocking chair and sit in the window counting the days until my death.
Personally, I think they might find that superbly located apartment nearly unsellable...unless to a pair of newlywed GYMNASTS. I did 3 flights plus stoop for 15 years in my 30's-40's...doable then but I just couldn't handle anything higher any more.
And the worst: Crawling down 6 flights and realizing: "Oh Shytte, I left my wallet upstairs!" or "Oh yes, Mr. King, you'll need those crutches for 3 weeks."
And the worst: Crawling down 6 flights and realizing: "Oh Shytte, I left my wallet upstairs!" or "Oh yes, Mr. King, you'll need those crutches for 3 weeks."
Both scenarios have happened to me when I was living on the 6th floor of a walk up. The latter only happened once, but let's say that after you forget your wallet a few times you develop a ritual "checking procedure" before locking your door to get downstairs.
Right before I'd lock the door I'd feel around for my 1) wallet, 2) keys, 3) Sunglasses and 4) Cellphone. If all 4 were present on my body, I'd lock the door and leave.
I lived 2 flights up in my last apartment, and when I was looking for my current place (5th floor, but with an elevator), I told the agent that it either had to be 1st floor, or have an elevator. It always made me sad that my dad only saw my last place twice because he couldn't handle the stairs (he had cancer). My mom only saw it a few more times than that because the stairs wiped her out.
Doing laundry, carrying luggage, doing a decent sized grocery shopping - all of these little chores became HUGE.
I wouldn't even look at walk ups in my last search.
But it's 6 the floor PLUS a long set of ouside stairs. I think that is the legal limit without an elevator.
Just to clarify a few things regarding 6 stories being the limit. If my memory serves me right, 75 feet is actually the limit, which usually turns out to be 6 stories. Anything over 75 feet would be considered a high rise, which is then governed by zoning rules and regulations. So it's not that certain neighborhoods only built buildings up to 6 stories because they are too cheap to add an elevator, it's because zoning may not allow a highrise anyway.
So it's not that certain neighborhoods only built buildings up to 6 stories because they are too cheap to add an elevator, it's because zoning may not allow a highrise anyway.
I'm sure both considerations come into play.
"Adding an elevator" is a costly addition, difficult to squeeze in and always fraught with expensive mainteneance. It has large economies of scale...more apartments = cheaper per apartment costs.
The friends I described in their lovely 6 story in the Heart of Brooklyn Hill have tried to imagine ANY way to upgrade to an elevator but they simply cannot find a way. Onlly conceivable thing method might be to append the elevator outside but that would ben buying someone else's property $$$$$...I believe there is a vacant lot next door.
But even this method was condidered beyond the pale for a number of reasons. And of vourse you'll always have those on the lower floors saying "Who needs an elevator for $100,000?"
I worked in a chemical plant once and they had ropes through holes in the wall with little steps attached evey 8 feet or so. You pulled a second thinner control rope and held on and up you went. Pulled again and you stopped.
It was cool (unless someone dropped something)...but not really for 70 year olds holding grocery bags...or a 20 year old with a baby.
Apartments with walkups aren't always decrepit slums. I did a short stint in a 6 floor walkup (or 5?) on Columbia Heights, one of the most desirable streets in all of Brooklyn.
Here is a reason I originally posed the question. I've recently put down a deposit on a new condo. The building itself was built in 1890, but the interior has been renovated to become a new condo. There are total 11 units and 5 floors (plus garden level). It is in a very desirable neighborhood, right across a park 3 minute walk to a station. Thinking that the unit on the first floor would be the most desirable one, I reserved one of the two units on the first floor. But then my realtor told me that the first unit reserved was the one on the 5th floor. According to him, a couple from Toronto got it. He only speculated their reasons, like fantastic view, more sun, quiet, etc. But this kind of made me second guess myself, "Should I have reserved a unit on a higher floor?" If it's a rental unit, I probably would have gone up a few floors, especially if the rent is cheaper up there. But I also imagined what would take to sell my unit if it's on a higher floor in a building with no elevator. And with all things considered and reading responses to my question, I am reasonably sure that I've made the right decision.
A first floor has a higher risk of burglary (---)
But a garden is desirable (+++)
A second floor is easy to get to, easy to escape from, and more burgar proof. (+++)
Going higher is a detriment, each floor being less valuable (---)
Top floor MAY have a roof terrace or similar amenity (+++)
In the building you mention, I am going to guess that those who took the first option of the top floor did so either because it had a roof amenity or it was considerably discounted in price. Being the CHEAPEST unit in a building is often a draw.
Selling a fifth floor walkup is NOT easy because a huge percentage of the buying public won't even CONSIDER looking at such a unit.
(I often think of the hilarious scene from BAREFOOT IN THE PARK when his mother climbs the 6 flights the first time...I almost peed in my pants with laughter.)
I once helped a friend move her 10+ bags of (heavy) groceries to her apartment on the 5th floor, back and forth. I am never doing that again.
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