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Maybe that's because Hustla tends to say that same exact thing about most areas of the Bronx other than those "nicer" areas that many can't afford.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only "nice" Bronx areas Hustla usually recommends are relatively pricey, except for Woodlawn- and perhaps parts of Riverdale---or am I wrong? Can the average person afford to live in Country Club or Throgg's Neck etc?
Also along the same lines--did a quick search for Morris Park in the NY Times and they don't even list it as a location to search for--only Morris Heights, which people here say is not a good area.
And yes, I'd think from Mott Haven to midtown is a relatively short commute, assuming you live near the subway. I live in Fordham, and the typical commute for me takes forty minutes or less (from when I get on the train).
I'd also hesitate to live in an area where you need to take a bus to the train to commute to work. At least around here, the buses are standing room only jam packed and very slow.
Also, Not everyone wants to move to the suburbs. Some must live in NYC for jobs, school, etc, and many others prefer it, at least for the time being. So to say that it's reached the point where it's just not worth it to live here depends on the individual. For Hustla it's not worth it, but for others it might be.
If you can afford $1,500 dollars a month. Why the hell are you living in a Mott Haven? Anyone making that much can move into a decent section of another east coast city.
The people living in Mott Haven are not paying market rate. Every tenement south of Saint Mary's Park is HUD. Exception being the Millbrook NYCHA rehabs.
From Brook to Saint Anns it's all NYCHA. The bulk is the Betances NYCHA complex and it's rehabs and then some rent controlled and section 8 apartments scattered around. In the south is another huge NYCHA complex.
From Willis to Brook Ave its 3 subsidized townhouse blocks in the north with a mix of rent control, section 8 and room for rent south of that. Also NYCHA at the northern above those townhouses and southern tip.
From Alexander to Willis is mostly NYCHA. With some room for rents, section 8, and rent control.
West of that is all NYCHA and then industry.
People are NOT paying the market rate. Why the hell would anyone want to move there.
And stop crying about the burbs. I'm talking other cities. If you look you can even find compareable rents in other sections of the city. Even in this city if you look.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scatman
Look, I totally understand if people do not want to be places that are considered bad areas. On the other hand, there are people who took the chance, and are now cashing in! One has to see for him/herself whether that neighborhood is for them. I would hope that people don't bash those that do take the chance. People who chose those neighborhoods definitely understand what the realities they are going up against.
Instead of telling people to "avoid", people should be more objective, telling them the benefits plus any issues, a balanced view. The inquirer should always do the research and see the property/neighborhood for him/herself.
This is not about investment.
This is about living in a high poverty neighborhood with a lot of problems.
We are not talking about flipping and ripping people off. Both locals and new residents. Putting fast cash in your pocket at the expense of your own.
We are talking about actually living in ****hole neighborhoods thousands have died trying to escape.
Last edited by Hustla718; 09-28-2007 at 03:21 PM..
I don't know what kind of problem you are trying to start but last year over 500 people were killed in NYC.
Go ahead and add up the number of murders in NYC at least from 1950. I know that is well over 50,000 people.
That does not factor in people who died from:
-asthma
-drug overdoses
-freak ghetto accidents like cieling collapses.
-children that have died during birth with parents from low income communities.
-ect.
You might try to make a joke out of it but you have no knowledge on this subject whatsoever.
These people died trying to make something of themselves.
BTW, here is a better photo reflecting life in the ghetto:
This is about living in a high poverty neighborhood with a lot of problems.
We are not talking about flipping and ripping people off. Both locals and new residents. Putting fast cash in your pocket at the expense of your own.
We are talking about actually living in ****hole neighborhoods thousands have died trying to escape.
I wasn't talking about investment, either!
I'll quote a friend of mine......."If you think the grass is greener on the other side, then you need to water your own grass!"
Just remember this perspective also....your first home is a steping stone to something better! Plenty of peeps bought in the hood, lived there for a minute, and then moved on up like George and Weezie! At the same time, some people saw improvements and stayed! Either way, they reaped the benefits!
I'll quote a friend of mine......."If you think the grass is greener on the other side, then you need to water your own grass!"
Just remember this perspective also....your first home is a steping stone to something better! Plenty of peeps bought in the hood, lived there for a minute, and then moved on up like George and Weezie! At the same time, some people saw improvements and stayed! Either way, they reaped the benefits!
How about a new saying.
You water your grass and your neighbors throw a party in YOUR yard. You build a nice house, and the kids will cover it with graffiti. You clean your street, and the locals will dirty it again. You complain about the noise to 311, and as soon as the cops leave the noise is back.
The hood is the hood. It's not a nice place to live. End of story.
The only way to change the hood is get rid of the people. Gentrification. To displace them. Then it's not the same neighborhood.
However the area we are discussing is not going to change. It is full of housing designated only for the very low income. That is not changing according to the housing trends.
HUD and NYCHA would have to be shut down. And all the section 8 renters would have to be kicked out. And all stable rents would have to go up. All homeless shelters closed. Townhouses re sold to higher income earners. Same with all the other low income housing programs.
Well, there's no way to tell for sure, of course. We may be headed for a mini recession, so you never do know. Our dollar is already very weak.
But for some NY'ers, even moving to another city (which I would assume would have many of the same problems, to a larger or smaller degree) is not an option, either out of preference or necessity. For me, it would only be second (or third, etc) best.
I've lived here all my life, and through worse eras than this by far. Things go up, they go down, go up again.
Call me crazy, but I still love NY and the only cities I'd consider moving to would be in Europe--and probably only for a temporary stay. San Francisco is beautiful, but also obscenely expensive.
I agree that for people from smaller cities or suburban/small towns, even the "new, improved" NYC is too much for them. For some people, NYC is just too big of a town--too much competition, too much everything. Too intense. Some people who grew up here couldn't wait to get out and never look back.
But dye in the wool NY'ers don't flee when the chips are down. They are survivors (maybe like cockroaches, lol) who stake their claim, determined to live and die in the place they call home, sticking with it (like any good long term relationship) through good times and bad.
It really did amuse me when one poster (I think a newcomer?) complained about the state of the subways. Someone got on the train and began preaching. Someone else littered (which is becoming much less common). Someone got on and started playing an instrument. And so on.
To me, this is part of the character and charm of NYC. None of the above people are likely to jack you up and rob you. In the Bernie Goetz era it was kind of like a Charles Bronson movie, and the subways were a nightmare in every way imaginable. Dirty, no A/C, even more crowded, menacing (lots of toughs on the train), people blasting their boom-boxes, etc.
Even I was amazed to find that my subway ride from Manhattan to the Bronx and vice versa is virtually mellow. Mostly people of color north of 86th Street (I've learned who to stand in front of if I want to get a seat in a stop or two), but they mind their own business. I feel no threat, no menacing vibe anymore.
What annoys me now esp since I no longer live there is the Manhattan vibe--but that might merit a separate thread.
So you might say it's survival of the fittest. Anyway, I don't think the entire city should be overrun with the wealthy and those who would like to turn NYC into just another suburban mall (which Manhattan has rapidly become in many ways).
People who live here long enough usually have an instinct for avoiding trouble--but they are willing to chance that trouble might be in the wind at any time. Again, maybe a topic for another thread.
But for the poster who whined about her little nasty-wasty little subway ride, well, I guess NYC is just not the place for her.
It is quite obvious that Hustla and myself are on opposite sides of the debate on these issues.
Hustla has indicated possible relocation to Philadelphia. I have encouraged him to explore property he can get at dirt cheap prices. I have also encouraged him to explore mortgage programs for law enforcement (which are plenty!). I do not know whether he has looked into these possibilities.
Be that as it may, it is obvious that both of us vehemently are at odds as to places to live and invest. Let's agree to disagree! I will continue to encourge people to pursue homeownership, look at all options and find the best locations to suit their needs! I will never, ever discourage people from living or investing anywhere (ultimately, it's the seeker who has to live there!).
From here on in, I will not respond to any of Hustla's posts! I'm not mad at him. We just never see eye to eye, that's all.
Well, there's no way to tell for sure, of course. We may be headed for a mini recession, so you never do know. Our dollar is already very weak.
But for some NY'ers, even moving to another city (which I would assume would have many of the same problems, to a larger or smaller degree) is not an option, either out of preference or necessity. For me, it would only be second (or third, etc) best.
I've lived here all my life, and through worse eras than this by far. Things go up, they go down, go up again.
Call me crazy, but I still love NY and the only cities I'd consider moving to would be in Europe--and probably only for a temporary stay. San Francisco is beautiful, but also obscenely expensive.
I agree that for people from smaller cities or suburban/small towns, even the "new, improved" NYC is too much for them. For some people, NYC is just too big of a town--too much competition, too much everything. Too intense. Some people who grew up here couldn't wait to get out and never look back.
But dye in the wool NY'ers don't flee when the chips are down. They are survivors (maybe like cockroaches, lol) who stake their claim, determined to live and die in the place they call home, sticking with it (like any good long term relationship) through good times and bad.
It really did amuse me when one poster (I think a newcomer?) complained about the state of the subways. Someone got on the train and began preaching. Someone else littered (which is becoming much less common). Someone got on and started playing an instrument. And so on.
To me, this is part of the character and charm of NYC. None of the above people are likely to jack you up and rob you. In the Bernie Goetz era it was kind of like a Charles Bronson movie, and the subways were a nightmare in every way imaginable. Dirty, no A/C, even more crowded, menacing (lots of toughs on the train), people blasting their boom-boxes, etc.
Even I was amazed to find that my subway ride from Manhattan to the Bronx and vice versa is virtually mellow. Mostly people of color north of 86th Street (I've learned who to stand in front of if I want to get a seat in a stop or two), but they mind their own business. I feel no threat, no menacing vibe anymore.
What annoys me now esp since I no longer live there is the Manhattan vibe--but that might merit a separate thread.
So you might say it's survival of the fittest. Anyway, I don't think the entire city should be overrun with the wealthy and those who would like to turn NYC into just another suburban mall (which Manhattan has rapidly become in many ways).
People who live here long enough usually have an instinct for avoiding trouble--but they are willing to chance that trouble might be in the wind at any time. Again, maybe a topic for another thread.
But for the poster who whined about her little nasty-wasty little subway ride, well, I guess NYC is just not the place for her.
Good post. Let's start that thread
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Which reminds me of this...
