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The Select Bus was originally to be a kind of pilot project. The stats show it has been successful in speeding up bus rides. I live near a select bus route (bx12 select) and overall I have to say it has been a marked improvement over previous service. Could it be better? Of course but most people who use it seem to be happy with the improvements.
I have pointed out in other threads that I don't feel the current setup of getting a paper receipt (extremely wasteful and not the best deterrent of fair evasion) and having retired/off duty cops/on duty cops (whatever it may be) patrol the buses from time to time are the best way to manage these routes. According to what I remember reading the paper receipt thing was not supposed to be a permanent procedure. The MTA has been slow in the past to make changes when it comes to buses heck they are slow when it comes to trains too. I hope in the future a better pay system is integrated. If they get that part of it right there won't be much need to have patrols.
How much did it cost to install the ticket machines along the M15 route?
Fare evasion cannot occur with the local M15, so how much is the added cost of policing the M15 Select system?
Have they run more buses to make whoever dreamed up the SELECT system look good? Extra costs to extra buses (even if empty?)
Experienceing both A LOT...the Third Avenue/Lex buses (M101Lim, M102, and M103) run better than the M15 conglom of local, and select. This is based on almost 2 years of riding both systems frequently, but not at rush hours.
Bellakin, if they're going to complain about skipped fares, then maybe they shouldn't have begun the idiocy of having people board at back doors, eh? They can't have it both ways. By the way, a friend had a theory, which I've seen echoed in the NYT, that the MTA might do just as well to be free, with the money they'd save.
NooYowyer, it's no great feat to speed up a bus if you give it a dedicated lane and cut down on the number of stops.
Kefir King - yes! How much did they spend on the special buses? How much did they spend on inventing the receipt system, and then buying the machines? How much did they spend on publicizing it? How much are they spending on the cops?
Speaking of lost money, I'd like to see a comparison with what the MTA wastes on hair-brained schemes (or is it hare-brained?), like the installation if digital read-outs at bus stops. Hell, I'd like to see what they lose in giving MTA workers free transportation - I'd rather have them get just a reduced rate.
The enforcement thing really bothers me because I heard the new MTA head saying not long ago, very genially, that they weren't going to bother with an individual rider (who got on a standard bus in front) and didn't pay fare. It seems that it's okay on one bus but not another? Maybe it bothers me that the penalty is so high, maybe it bothers me that it's such a petty crime to pursue. By the way, the first time I saw a guy caught, nice-looking guy in a suit and tie, carrying something like a Bergdorf bag - it turned out that he did have his receipt. But by the time they dragged him off and harassed him, the bus was long-gone, of course.
I have to add, I have permanently lost any faith with the MTA saying it's losing money after that time - which everyone else seems to have forgotten - that they were caught lying with a second set of books.
The point about random checks is precisely to deter fare beating. If deterrence succeeds, then, obviously they will not catch any violators!
That's the thing: They are random. It's just that you don't happen to see any, but you do hear of stories on the news where they mistakenly gave somebody a ticket or whatever. So the riders do know that there's a chance they could get caught if they don't pay. A ticket is $100. A bus fare is $2.25 (or effectively $2.10 if you get a PPR MetroCard with a bonus, but whatever). So if you ride 44 times and get caught on the 45th time, you lost out. Most people aren't going to take that risk.
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Originally Posted by wawaweewa
I'm surprised no one has brought this up (including myuself).
How much money does the MTA make off of unused credit on metro cards and malfunctioning cards?
I read it's something like $52 million.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King
Fare evasion cannot occur with the local M15, so how much is the added cost of policing the M15 Select system?
Sure it can. You can go in through the back door or tell the driver you don't have a MetroCard and see if he lets you on. That's how they do it in the outer boroughs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida
Bellakin, if they're going to complain about skipped fares, then maybe they shouldn't have begun the idiocy of having people board at back doors, eh? They can't have it both ways. By the way, a friend had a theory, which I've seen echoed in the NYT, that the MTA might do just as well to be free, with the money they'd save.
They're not complaining about skipped fares on the +SBS+ routes. They're complaining about it on the subways and regular routes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida
The enforcement thing really bothers me because I heard the new MTA head saying not long ago, very genially, that they weren't going to bother with an individual rider (who got on a standard bus in front) and didn't pay fare. It seems that it's okay on one bus but not another?
No, if anything the new MTA head said the opposite. Aside from that, it's always been an MTA policy not to challenge riders who don't pay. All the B/O is required to do is state that the fare is $2.25. Many go beyond that, but they're not required to. Why? Because if the B/O gets assaulted, it'll cost more than the $2.25 they'll get from the rider.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida
I have to add, I have permanently lost any faith with the MTA saying it's losing money after that time - which everyone else seems to have forgotten - that they were caught lying with a second set of books.
Uh, no they haven't. In fact, the politician who accused them was himself found guilty of a scandal.
Everything I'm saying is verifiable if you look it up.
That's the thing: They are random. It's just that you don't happen to see any, but you do hear of stories on the news where they mistakenly gave somebody a ticket or whatever.
Of course if it takes you more than two seconds to find your receipt, it's off the bus with a ticket with you, and don't bother arguing.
But the randomness is what makes it work. The uncertainty makes the potential fare-beater's calculations complicated and hopefully deters the fare beating. (For instance, if it were not random and inspections always happen between 10 and 11 AM, then you could time your fare-beating accordingly.)
A mistaken arrest? But then show the paper slip.
As someone else noted, maybe you were too slow to come up with it? It's not rocket science to keep it handy, for chrissake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkmatechamp13
That's the thing: They are random. It's just that you don't happen to see any, but you do hear of stories on the news where they mistakenly gave somebody a ticket or whatever. So the riders do know that there's a chance they could get caught if they don't pay. A ticket is $100. A bus fare is $2.25 (or effectively $2.10 if you get a PPR MetroCard with a bonus, but whatever). So if you ride 44 times and get caught on the 45th time, you lost out. Most people aren't going to take that risk.
But the randomness is what makes it work. The uncertainty makes the potential fare-beater's calculations complicated and hopefully deters the fare beating. (For instance, if it were not random and inspections always happen between 10 and 11 AM, then you could time your fare-beating accordingly.)
A mistaken arrest? But then show the paper slip.
As someone else noted, maybe you were too slow to come up with it? It's not rocket science to keep it handy, for chrissake.
That's my point: As of now, they do it at random times. It's just that they don't do it that frequently.
As for a mistaken arrest, there have been cases where they pulled people off the bus, and they still gave them a ticket even after they pulled out the receipt. Then, even if those people got the ticket dismissed, they still had to take off from work to show up for the court date (Not to mention they probably had to pay a bus fare to get there and back)
Yeah, they should've kept it handy, but you don't give somebody a ticket as they show the receipt.
Do you realize how much money is wasted vis-a-vis the MTA's overpriced and inefficient labor force? The MTA spends over $600MM in overtime annually and the vast majority of overtime hours aren't needed(according to MTA auditors).
Don't be foolish and naive. Farebeaters are a sideshow that the MTA likes to push. The MTA itself is the largest abuser of the MTA. I don't like fare beaters but fare beaters are a marginal cost to the system. It's not as if extra buses or subway wagons are commissioned specifically to transport fare beaters. Fare beaters are an infinitesimal marginal cost on the system.
It sounds like you're blaming the MTA for the largest financial problem it has, which honestly isn't their fault. Every time during arbitration the TWU seems to win and it's near impossible to make those rules any less worker-friendly. That's not to say the MTA has its own structural issues, but they're smaller in the grand scheme of things.
The State Senate passed a bill which would allow the MTA to raise the current maximum fine for farebeaters from $100 to $500 and the penalty for not paying from $50 to $100.
I, personally, am in favor of this. Just the same way as I'm in favor of raising the fine for such things as double-parking to $400 or 500. And that's because the easiest way not to get hit with an outrageous fine is not to do the wrong thing in the first place. (Who would've imagined?)
The other, probably more foundational, problem is that there are lots of politicians who seem to think that all you have to do is pass a law, and poof! Problem solved. They haven't learned that things don't work that way. Laws have to be enforced. Let's be honest: if you knew for a fact that you were going to get hit with a $500 fine for farebeating or double parking, you wouldn't do it, would you?
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