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Old 03-14-2013, 01:00 PM
 
6,940 posts, read 9,675,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane View Post
What do you want to know?

They deal in drugs and crime. Get caught, tried, and either serve their time, or plea a reduced sentence (sometimes for immediate deportation, or near immediate). Either way, at the end, they are deported back to their *native* DR.

What more is there?

A number of the young man, brought to this country at a very young age, are ignorant of their risk of deportation. Some aren't even aware that they are not American citizens. All are FULLY Americanized!

Yet, are forced to return to what, in comparison, is a quite poor third world country. The transistion is VERY difficult. The fact that these young man are unprepared for life and/or work in the DR, leads them to return to crime, relying on what they know, crime! Which has lead to an epidemic of crime in the DR.

Other Carribean young mean are also victim of the same scenario, Puerto Ricans (though they are citizens), Jamaicans, and all the rest to some extent. The DR and Jamaica are the worst cases of these drug kids deported and running wild!

Some will find their way *back* to the US and NYC, entering illegally, and resuming their life of crime; until caught and deported again.

With the criminal record, and poor education, what can these men do in their native countries? Not to mention the taste of money and the "life", at such a young age.
I'm Caribbean American, and I've heard of many incidents of deportees. There are instances where an individual came as a toddler or even an infant and gets "dipped"(term used among Caribbean nationals in reference to being deported) in early adulthood for various crimes where some are often petty. I could only imagine this phenomenon occurring in the Dominican community. It's not an easy affliction like you've mentioned. Some countries scapegoat deportees for their rising crime rates. Of course, there aren't much evidence to support this claim even if it were to be true.


This is a result of a 1996 act that was drafted by congressional Republicans and ultimately signed by Bill Clinton.
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:29 PM
 
8,572 posts, read 8,531,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane View Post
You were going good, until the above!



Never heard of Harlem have you? Nicky Barnes? Frank Lucas?

Heroin is what destroyed Harlem and Bed Stuy, as well as The Bronx, not Crack!

Keep studying....

Btw, ever see "The Wire"?!

****

Jfyi, Heroin is cheaper than Crack!, and the initial high lasts longer! The economics (which was just hype) is in the cost of a $10 or $20 vile of crack versus the cost of a bag of coke, en eighth or a half. The crack will get you higher quicker, but will last far shorter.

The reality is that Crack is simply a pre manufactured form of Base Cocaine, which is simply cocaine process and cooked in order to produce an intense high!

Prior to Crack, people just bought bags, certain equipment, and cooked it up themselves. That is those sophisticated enough to know how! Crack just made the "base high" vailable to anyone, and they did not have to know how o cook it!

The cost came into play, because the high was so intense, it could gained with a small amount of cocaie, which obviously cost a great deal less, at least for that initial high.

From what I understand there are generational deifferences in who did heroin and who did crack. I came to NYC in 1982 and heroin was still widespread. Sights of addicts nodding off were common. Mainly males. Among non whites, African Americans and PRicans were the main users. Others were afraid of the needle.

Come 1985 crack took over. Jamaicans and Dominicans dominated the whole sale distribution, with smaller groups like Guyanese also playing a role. This time not only American minorities were among teh non white users, but also many black and Latin immigrants. Most disturbingly a higher % of the users were females than was the case with heroin. This ended up destroying many families and burdening grand mothers, and aunts, with raising crack babies.

Of course whites were the largest consumers of both heroin and crack/cocaine, though the emphasis on stigmatizing minorities meant that far fewer were arrested under the draconian drug laws. The sterotypical user of crack in the late 80s (af least 50% of the users) were white males in their late 20s and 30s). As the police focused on people standing up on street corners with rock, and not the mnay who arrived in cars (sometimes limos when the police began to confiscate cars), whites were not hastled to the same degree.

So even though whites account for more than 60% of the drug use nationwwide, the vast majority of those arrested in NYC for drug possession remain blacks and Hispanics. Many middle class neighborhoods. bordering the suburbs, North East Brionx, and South East Queens being examples, were greatly harmed as many drug dealers moved in to cater to the needs of whites who were too afraid to procure supplies in more dangerous areas.
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:39 PM
 
8,572 posts, read 8,531,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane View Post
What do you want to know?



A number of the young man, brought to this country at a very young age, are ignorant of their risk of deportation. Some aren't even aware that they are not American citizens. All are FULLY Americanized!



With the criminal record, and poor education, what can these men do in their native countries? Not to mention the taste of money and the "life", at such a young age.

This has created a problem as often these countries arent even aware that many of these are criminal and not ordinary deportees who are sent back for over staying a visitors/student visa. So do not monitor them until they become embedded within the local crime scene.

Because these folks left young, mnay having not visited their "homeland" often (and as you correctly say might see themselves as US citizens having more in common with US minorities than with the folks "back home") they experience great hardship. Their relatives certainly want no part of them and so they have no help in fitting into an alien environment. So mnay drift top crime, often importing more sophisticated methods than was practised by the local criminals in the early 90s when mass deportatyion of criminals began.


What is an increasing feature will be the multinational natire of the gang networks. Skype allows easy contact.

So a Guyanese who was deported connects with Trinidadians similarly deported, despite living in different countries. There have been instances of criminals from one country being hired to commit acts in another, this facilitated by networks that might have begun on the streets of Brooklyn.

Maybe the same occurs among DRs and PRs on the island, given that some DRs will have been deported from PR, and so are familiar with the criminal culture on that island.

It is indeed likely that much of the gun running from Miami to the Caribbean might involve networks of different islanders who established ties in South Florida.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:55 PM
 
6,940 posts, read 9,675,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
This has created a problem as often these countries arent even aware that many of these are criminal and not ordinary deportees who are sent back for over staying a visitors/student visa. So do not monitor them until they become embedded within the local crime scene.

Because these folks left young, mnay having not visited their "homeland" often (and as you correctly say might see themselves as US citizens having more in common with US minorities than with the folks "back home") they experience great hardship. Their relatives certainly want no part of them and so they have no help in fitting into an alien environment. So mnay drift top crime, often importing more sophisticated methods than was practised by the local criminals in the early 90s when mass deportatyion of criminals began.


What is an increasing feature will be the multinational natire of the gang networks. Skype allows easy contact.

So a Guyanese who was deported connects with Trinidadians similarly deported, despite living in different countries. There have been instances of criminals from one country being hired to commit acts in another, this facilitated by networks that might have begun on the streets of Brooklyn.

Maybe the same occurs among DRs and PRs on the island, given that some DRs will have been deported from PR, and so are familiar with the criminal culture on that island.

It is indeed likely that much of the gun running from Miami to the Caribbean might involve networks of different islanders who established ties in South Florida.

It actually started after 1996. Prior to 1996, only a conviction that landed you 5 years of imprisonment subjected you to deportation. Under these unprecedented initiatives, merely an arrest could potentially have your name sent to ICE. Another drawback is that it's retroactive, so if you had a conviction/arrest presiding the passage, you fall under these deportation measures. There are reports of immigrants bring apprehended after coming back from a vacation all because of an infraction that took place 20+ years ago.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:35 PM
 
3,357 posts, read 4,630,404 times
Reputation: 1897
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalChubsta View Post

I don't know if any of you have heard or read about Author Junot Diaz, he is my cousin and that is one example of overcoming poverty and getting ahead and becoming someone in life. My family (and extended fam) includes lawyers, businessmen, siblings with good careers or jobs and our families didn't have to sell drugs to gain any of that.
I've read his most famous book. It made me cry. Good for your family getting ahead.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:55 AM
 
Location: CNY
1,039 posts, read 1,544,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yodel View Post
I've read his most famous book. It made me cry. Good for your family getting ahead.
Thanks!! I was in HS when his first book Drown was released and was so happy that at the end of the book he mentions all of us.. all of his family!
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
396 posts, read 1,008,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
This is from a Dominican professor. For those who were around during the bad years, can you confirm this? Have things changed?


Dominicans in NYC were known only as drug dealers, University Professor asys - DominicanToday.com
This is still a very popular stereotype that is alive and well.
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:07 AM
 
Location: NY,NY
2,896 posts, read 9,810,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
I'm Caribbean American, and I've heard of many incidents of deportees. There are instances where an individual came as a toddler or even an infant and gets "dipped"(term used among Caribbean nationals in reference to being deported) in early adulthood for various crimes where some are often petty. I could only imagine this phenomenon occurring in the Dominican community. It's not an easy affliction like you've mentioned. Some countries scapegoat deportees for their rising crime rates. Of course, there aren't much evidence to support this claim even if it were to be true.


This is a result of a 1996 act that was drafted by congressional Republicans and ultimately signed by Bill Clinton.
Sorry, don't misunderstand me.

I am an American. My concern is America. I fully the deportation of Illegal Aliens. The circumstance of children, ILLEGALLY, brought here as children by THEIR PARENTS, is not the responsibility of the United States nor its citizens. Most have benefitted from an education and healthcare that they were/are not entitled to, and their parents have not paid for.

I can empathsize, but I do not sympathize. Their circumstance and irresponsibility lies with their parents, such cannot be rewarded.

Quote:
...scapegoat deportees for their rising crime rates. Of course, there aren't much evidence to support this claim even if it were to be true.
Quite backward thinking and prejudiced toward illegals. My major concern is the negative economic impact of both illegals and legals.
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:17 AM
 
Location: NY,NY
2,896 posts, read 9,810,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
From what I understand there are generational deifferences in who did heroin and who did crack. I came to NYC in 1982 and heroin was still widespread. Sights of addicts nodding off were common. Mainly males. Among non whites, African Americans and PRicans were the main users. Others were afraid of the needle.
"Widespread" is a bit of an overstatement, presumably based upon your observaions of that present, without being aware of the immediate past.

In '82 heroin was on the wane, any in roads into middle class communities had dissipitated. So, the growth was over. Young NYers, like myself, at that time, were not interested in the drug, having been indocrinated against it since grammar school!!

Yet, those neighborhoods which had been devasated continued to suffer the effects; areas like Harlem, The South Bronx, Bed Stuy, Bushwick, etc.

Though, other areas, such as Chelsea, South Brooklyn, and Park Slope, for example, were beginning to experience the first wave of gentrification. Even Harlem, the bourgouis parts, were beginning to feel Black Gentrification.

So, things may have felt widespread to you, but it was far more widspread in the previous decade of police and political corruption, white flight, and the onset of the *second* wave of Heroin epidemic (the first in the 50s). The late 60s and the decade of the 70s was the era of widespread use, which precipitated the wholesale destruction of once vibrant neighborhoods.

*****

I presume that you must have lived in a neighborhood like Harlem, or the like, to have personally witnessed a large degree of Junkies doing their thing, nodding off and all.

Except for the occasional white kid hippie type, I never saw anything "widespread", until I visited Chealsea, and for the first time saw only what had been portrayed on TV and movies. Devestated landscape, with block long lines of addicts/junkies lined up to make purchases. People of all races and sorts.

Thought I had entered the Twilight Zone!

Quote:
Come 1985 crack took over. Jamaicans and Dominicans dominated the whole sale distribution, with smaller groups like Guyanese also playing a role. This time not only American minorities were among teh non white users, but also many black and Latin immigrants. Most disturbingly a higher % of the users were females than was the case with heroin. This ended up destroying many families and burdening grand mothers, and aunts, with raising crack babies.
1985 is a bit early to claim "take over", but if your experience is Harlem and/or The South Bronx, then I can comprehend your perspective. Crack, actually, moved a bit slowly over the city, particularly its devasting effect.

In middle class Brooklyn, Crack was not thought about, nor even talked about, at that time. I will say that Coke powder was becoming more common, among the young middle class, who thought themselves "players"; but these were a small subset of knotheads.

The first time, I had heard of Crack was in an aricle in the Amsterdam News, hailing the begining of an epidemic IN HARLEM; and it did so w/o painting the devastatingly negative picture crack would become.

It wasn't until 1990/92 that crack hit middle class Brooklyn, black and white, with a vengence.

I disagree with Jamaicans having any significant position as crack wholesalers. To wholesale, on a large scale, one woould need to establish a relationship with a Columbian cartel. No other real way. There was a short period when Coke was being run into Jamaica, but those routes were supplanted by easier routes.

Guyanna did/does serve as pass through routes, generally, Mexico and Mexicans, who exploited exisiting smmugling routes into the US.

Jamaicans, very much controlled the Marijuana trade, in Brooklyn, from top to bottom. Producing and bringing in their own supply. It was their game. They had Jamaican *grow* and, they had JFK!!

Quote:
Of course whites were the largest consumers of both heroin and crack/cocaine, though the emphasis on stigmatizing minorities meant that far fewer were arrested under the draconian drug laws. The sterotypical user of crack in the late 80s (af least 50% of the users) were white males in their late 20s and 30s). As the police focused on people standing up on street corners with rock, and not the mnay who arrived in cars (sometimes limos when the police began to confiscate cars), whites were not hastled to the same degree.
True enough, but, again, you're talking an 'uptown' experience.

The Queens thing, was, generally, not a part of my experience, except for a few Flatbush boys with connectsions of some Queens West Indians.

****

During most of the above period, Heroin was dead, in terms of being "widespread". Yet, in the early 90s, it did make a sort of 'comeback', chiefly among numnutted Transplants of the day, who populated the still (white/hispanic) 'ghetto' areas of the East Village and Chelsea, anarchistic, reggae loving, idiots! The forerunners of todays's "hipsters"!
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Helsinki, Finland
5,452 posts, read 11,247,758 times
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Heroin never dies, it's always around more or less. Today many are addicted to both Heroin and Crack.
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