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I just love how people try to pit Blacks and Hispanics against "immigrants". First of all, in any major city, many of the blacks are immigrant blacks from Africa, the Caribbean, and Latin America. In many major city many of the Hispanics will be comparatively recent arrivals from Latin America.
As for black unemployment, well, things such as historical discrimination, easy welfare, high incarceration rate, broken families, substance abuse, and other factors that marginalized populations deal with are surely factors, aren't they? These are things conveniently ignored when people try to pit Blacks against immigrants.
This is all nonsense.
The extremely high rate of Black American unemployment is a more recent phenomenon.
Of course all of the factors you mentioned play a role but the single greatest factor is that lower skilled Americans have a lot more competition as a result of immigration (both legal and illegal).
It's simple supply and demand.
What's more interesting is that Black Americans are no longer even the main beneficiaries of affirmative action. They've been supplanted by Caribbean Blacks in this regard and there is tension because of this. Black Americans are getting flat out hosed.
I tell my Black American friends this all the time. If you think White people are bad wait until Caribbean Blacks and Hispanics acquire more and more political power. lol At least the history of racism in the US among the White establishment keeps a lid on things due to guilt, politics, history, etc.
It's no secret in NYC that Caribbean Blacks and Hispanics do not hold a fond view of Black Americans.
Last edited by wawaweewa; 03-22-2013 at 10:57 PM..
Most black kids dream of becoming a rap artist or an athlete. When at 18-19 years-old many are going nowhere, have a kid by then, so reality hits them: they got no money and need to pay child-support.
So they take low paying jobs, like construction laborers for example. Some of them can't hold them, because you can't stay up till 2 am watching TV, and get to the construction site by 7 am. So they don't last long.
So they go in the system, learn the way around it, and knowledge-share. There you have the high unemployment. Walk any weekday at 12 noon in Harlem. It's shocking how many young blacks are getting up from sleep, and start hanging outside.
The extremely high rate of Black American unemployment is a more recent phenomenon.
Of course all of the factors you mentioned play a role but the single greatest factor is that lower skilled Americans have a lot more competition as a result of immigration (both legal and illegal).
It's simple supply and demand.
What's more interesting is that Black Americans are no longer even the main beneficiaries of affirmative action. They've been supplanted by Caribbean Blacks in this regard and there is tension because of this. Black Americans are getting flat out hosed.
I tell my Black American friends this all the time. If you think White people are bad wait until Caribbean Blacks and Hispanics acquire more and more political power. lol At least the history of racism in the US among the White establishment keeps a lid on things due to guilt, politics, history, etc.
It's no secret in NYC that Caribbean Blacks and Hispanics do not hold a fond view of Black Americans.
Black Unemployment was always high. Why was there even a civil rights movement if there things were so great in Black communities, employment wise, financially, or otherwise?
Many of my relatives have one Black American and one Caribbean or Hispanic parent.
So then, what is a Black American?
That in and of itself is an artificial category.
Even look at a family like the Obamas. The dad is half white, with a father from Kenya. The mother is a Black American. You're trying to insert divisions to degrees that simply do not exist.
As for the Black Secretary of States, one was of Jamaican descent, while the next was from Birmingham, AL.
As for Blacks, here is a secret. No one can look at you and tell if you are Caribbean, "American", Hispanic, or African. A name change and an accent change or alteration is so easily done.
Most black kids dream of becoming a rap artist or an athlete. When at 18-19 years-old many are going nowhere, have a kid by then, so reality hits them: they got no money and need to pay child-support.
So they take low paying jobs, like construction laborers for example. Some of them can't hold them, because you can't stay up till 2 am watching TV, and get to the construction site by 7 am. So they don't last long.
So they go in the system, learn the way around it, and knowledge-share. There you have the high unemployment. Walk any weekday at 12 noon in Harlem. It's shocking how many young blacks are getting up from sleep, and start hanging outside.
And where's the proof that this is most Black Americans nationally?
New York City's Black American population does not necessarily represent most Black Americans. For starters, this is a city where everything in the past was provided by the government, including transportation. Most Americans have to drive (and most Black Americans live in the South where you must DRIVE to GET AROUND).
During my time in the Southern states, I saw Black Americans all over the place, from retail workers, to teachers, factory workers, bus drivers, home owners, renters, project dwellers, etc.
Many of New York's City's Black communities suffered from Black flight as well. Meaning, the Black Middle class, those who were professionals or at least could afford a decent lifestyle, fled. Particularly as the crack epidemic reached its height in the late 80s/early 90s. So what you have left in certain "black" neighborhoods was an UNDERCLASS of Blacks, basically, the SCUMMIEST people.
But that is NOT, was NOT, and NEVER was all or MOST Black Americans.
Do immigrants compete with or make jobless a Southern high school teacher, bus driver, nurse, doctor, mechanic, etc? Absolutely NOT!
In the context of NYC, if new arrivals of immigrants are pricing ghetto scum out of certain parts of town, then praise Jesus because NYC is better off without them. I would much rather live with working people of any nationality or race than gang bangers of any race.
And by the way, you have plenty of middle class Blacks (homeowners and all) in parts of Eastern Queens, and parts of the North Bronx. And they are of all nationalities, including Americans. And yes, there are Blacks in NYC (American and otherwise) who have professional jobs.
And where's the proof that this is most Black Americans nationally?
First, the context is about NYC, not national.
Secondly, why everything is "give me a link to a study?" We hang out at CD to listen to regular people's views and observations. If I wanted studies, articles etc I would hang out at Google news. Myself, I have learned much more from poeple here on CD than press articles or studies.
We believe in CD's Forum so much that we use it as a primary source in our Real Estate investment business. Not just NY alone. Nothing is more authentic that your / our voices.
How are people going to afford all these apartments going up on wages that are not that high in 'hospitality & retail'?? Even in Queens, a small one bedroom apartment out in Flushing or further east near the Nassau line costs at least $1500 a month in rent, the closer to Manhattan the higher the price -- in Astoria where everyone wants to live rents are approaching those of Williamsburg but somehow all these transplanted 20 somethings somehow make 40 times the monthly rent which is the minimum qualification to get accepted anywhere in the NY metro area. The rents of these nouveau 'luxury' buildings going up such as around Hunts point in Queens start at around $2,000 for a studio.
And really these days all that the city 'has to offer' in terms of culture, entertainment, restaurants are not for average people who (god forb*d) make less than $100,000 a year or who buy clothes at TJ Maxx instead of say those nouveau boutiques in SoHo or Bloomingdales. I am sure many can see where I am going with this. I still have ties to the city since I own a business and have family in Queens but no way could I ever move back
Secondly, why everything is "give me a link to a study?" We hang out at CD to listen to regular people's views and observations. If I wanted studies, articles etc I would hang out at Google news. Myself, I have learned much more from poeple here on CD than press articles or studies.
We believe in CD's Forum so much that we use it as a primary source in our Real Estate investment business. Not just NY alone. Nothing is more authentic that your / our voices.
But I agree with everything else you said.
Proof that most Black New Yorkers want to be rappers?
The reason why everything is link me to a study is because someone can have 5 black friends, and claim that the entire world of black people is just like their 5 black friends! When the picture can be very different IF they spoke to more people beyond their 5 black friends.
There have been times when I visited CUNY campuses, and I've met seen plenty of Black New Yorkers there. I've seen a number of Black New Yorkers working for the MTA and in civil service. So again, do you have any proof that most Black New Yorkers want to be athletes or rappers?
Proof that most Black New Yorkers want to be rappers?
The reason why everything is link me to a study is because someone can have 5 black friends, and claim that the entire world of black people is just like their 5 black friends! When the picture can be very different IF they spoke to more people beyond their 5 black friends.
There have been times when I visited CUNY campuses, and I've met seen plenty of Black New Yorkers there. I've seen a number of Black New Yorkers working for the MTA and in civil service. So again, do you have any proof that most Black New Yorkers want to be athletes or rappers?
Let me paraphrase myself -- I don't give a **** about some study's "proof". You live here? I want to hear your personal observations.
In my business (RE and Constr) --we work in many neighborhoods, we meet and observe all kinds of people. It's our business. All these properties you talk about, we have been inside of them. In their bedrooms, kitchens, bathrooms, 10 am, 7 pm, weekend, whatever. We talk to people. We hire from the neighborhood. We make friends. In a few occassions, I have actually brought in my kids to be babysat in these neighborhoods.
If I was you, I would say "Henry, please what have you seen with your own eyes. Forget about these surveys that people fill out, what have you seen"? Yet, you want some survey company in Minnessota to do a telephone survey, and find out the truth what really happens in people's homes and lives? To each his own.
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