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You're on the right path... It took you awhile but hard work and determination finding a proper Bed-stuy area to mention that won't make you sound like an imbecile paid off... I'm waiting on Bushwick now... Please enlighten me as to the areas you saw that were "filled" with whites in Bushwick...
I didn't have to find a Bedstuy area, I lived there so there was nothing to FIND. All along the G line, Bedstuy has gentrified and this gentrification extends to the A line of Bedstuy beyond Nostrand Avenue. And its irrelevant what YOU think, my response wasn't aimed at you at all.
I posted those areas for the benefit of people who may see different people arguing on this thread whether gentrification is happening in Northern Brooklyn. It is, and I've seen it first hand and LIVED in it.
I lived in Far Rockaway for about a year and I took the A train to Broadway Junction, and often transferred to the L train. A good number of whites got on and off the stops anywhere from Bedford Avenue to Myrtle Wycoff. I saw this all times of day and night.
For areas I've gotten off in East Williamsburg (read Bushwick) areas like the Jefferson stop I often went to various events that had bands and a mostly white crowd attending. Now, yes, there obviously where a lot of hispanics in the neighborhood, but there was also a decent white presence.
I didn't have to find a Bedstuy area, I lived there so there was nothing to FIND. All along the G line, Bedstuy has gentrified and this gentrification extends to the A line of Bedstuy beyond Nostrand Avenue. And its irrelevant what YOU think, my response wasn't aimed at you at all.
I posted those areas for the benefit of people who may see different people arguing on this thread whether gentrification is happening in Northern Brooklyn. It is, and I've seen it first hand and LIVED in it.
I lived in Far Rockaway for about a year and I took the A train to Broadway Junction, and often transferred to the L train. A good number of whites got on and off the stops anywhere from Bedford Avenue to Myrtle Wycoff. I saw this all times of day and night.
For areas I've gotten off in East Williamsburg (read Bushwick) areas like the Jefferson stop I often went to various events that had bands and a mostly white crowd attending. Now, yes, there obviously where a lot of hispanics in the neighborhood, but there was also a decent white presence.
the truth has finally come out and it is almost exactly what I expected... So you're telling me and everyone reading this, that you made your (pretty vocal and confident) assumptions of Bushwick based on the number of white folk that got off on the l train... wow...
Btw, on the L train, JEFFERSON is the beginning of Bushwick... Not Graham or grand, or Montrose, or Morgan or anything else in between... Jefferson, DeKalb and Myrtle Wyckoff are the only three stops you passed that were in Bushwick borderline Ridgewood... And for the record a number of the white folk you see heading out of the dekalb stops as well as Myrtle Wyckoff stops actually live deep in Ridgewood but because there is bus service along both those stops (B38 heading down to either Seneca and MYrtle or Metro on the dekalb stop) and any number of bus services along the myrtle Wyckoff stop as well as the M train... that is the reason why you would see such a mix of people getting off at that stop...
My final point... you pointing out how the only times you were ever in actual Bushwick was for events along the Jefferson stop is laughable... Did you live in Bushwick at the time? You already stated no. And yet, you were there for an event... What are the chances that other people were doing the same as well... Man seeing you try to defend yourself and prove your knowledge is like watching a train wreck unfold...
the truth has finally come out and it is almost exactly what I expected... So you're telling me and everyone reading this, that you made your (pretty vocal and confident) assumptions of Bushwick based on the number of white folk that got off on the l train... wow...
Btw, on the L train, JEFFERSON is the beginning of Bushwick... Not Graham or grand, or Montrose, or Morgan or anything else in between... Jefferson, DeKalb and Myrtle Wyckoff are the only three stops you passed that were in Bushwick borderline Ridgewood... And for the record a number of the white folk you see heading out of the dekalb stops as well as Myrtle Wyckoff stops actually live deep in Ridgewood but because there is bus service along both those stops (B38 heading down to either Seneca and MYrtle or Metro on the dekalb stop) and any number of bus services along the myrtle Wyckoff stop as well as the M train... that is the reason why you would see such a mix of people getting off at that stop...
My final point... you pointing out how the only times you were ever in actual Bushwick was for events along the Jefferson stop is laughable... Did you live in Bushwick at the time? You already stated no. And yet, you were there for an event... What are the chances that other people were doing the same as well... Man seeing you try to defend yourself and prove your knowledge is like watching a train wreck...
Yes, based on the number of white people that got off the train, a train I took NEARLY DAILY. A train, I took not only during rush hours, but at times mid days and at times late nights.
Did not mean to sound derogatory... This topic is frustrating at times because you have so many people that spread misinformation with so much confidence... I don't lump you into that category... And yes you would be correct in assuming that the trends have continued especially along the east Williamsburg border but my point of my last post was that if you take a look at the census tracts along that borderline in comparison with the census tracts along the heart of bushwick towards Madison, cornelia, gates, hancock st, grove st, etc. from irving to evergreen... the tracts along the Jefferson l train for the most part are much smaller... the ones that have a higher number also have a smaller percentage of whites... Obviously the census tracts weren't done intentionally for this purpose, but it is a little deceiving for those who simply look at the tracts without looking at the population as a measure of change...
I took another look at the NYT visualization of the tracts and it seems like the five census tracts on the border four have population sizes smaller than other tracts on average and one has a bigger population size than average. Your point is a good and accurate one, but the difference in population size tract-wise isn't like an order of magnitude big.
A bit of a tangent, but one other thing that the census glosses over is the change of the hispanic demographic itself. The number of Mexican residents, and probably Guatemalan as well, and businesses that have sprouted up in Bushwick in the decade or so is pretty significant. The census tracts just says it's all hispanic but PRs and Dominicans have a lot more similarities to each other than either have with Mexicans. This is probably overstating it a bit, but the demographic growth of Mexicans in Bushwick (or just non-PR and non-Dominican hispanic) was as large or larger than that of whites in Bushwick.
I took another look at the NYT visualization of the tracts and it seems like the five census tracts on the border four have population sizes smaller than other tracts on average and one has a bigger population size than average. Your point is a good and accurate one, but the difference in population size tract-wise isn't like an order of magnitude big.
A bit of a tangent, but one other thing that the census glosses over is the change of the hispanic demographic itself. The number of Mexican residents, and probably Guatemalan as well, and businesses that have sprouted up in Bushwick in the decade or so is pretty significant. The census tracts just says it's all hispanic but PRs and Dominicans have a lot more similarities to each other than either have with Mexicans. This is probably overstating it a bit, but the demographic growth of Mexicans in Bushwick (or just non-PR and non-Dominican hispanic) was as large or larger than that of whites in Bushwick.
Exactly... To be fair though while the area is still about 75% Hispanic with a sizable south and central American population... The majority is still Carribbean Hispanics but that is quickly continuing to diminish. I'd say probably about 30% of the population in 2013 is still Puerto Rican while another 20% is Dominican...The other 25% and climbing though is Mexican and Ecuadorian and they are taking over all of the businesses that were previously run by Puerto Ricans and Dominicans...
In Ridgewood, it's pretty balanced aside from PR businesses of which they have maybe 2 or 3... Demographics wise the area is probably around 15-20% PR overall, about 15% Dominican and about 15-20% Mexican/Ecuadorian... The areas closer to the bushwick border are still Carribbean dominated but the South and Central population has exploded deeper into Queens by the Fresh Pond Rd, 60th ln/st/pl once you cross Madison st.
But yea getting back to your original point... Just as I would assume would be the case for Mott Haven/East Harlem and other areas that are similar in demographics seeing a small group of hipsters... the real story about these areas is the growing number of Mexicans/Ecuadorians as opposed to the relatively small amount of hipsters that move in that seem to be completely overblown in many cases...
I didn't have to find a Bedstuy area, I lived there so there was nothing to FIND. All along the G line, Bedstuy has gentrified and this gentrification extends to the A line of Bedstuy beyond Nostrand Avenue. And its irrelevant what YOU think, my response wasn't aimed at you at all.
I posted those areas for the benefit of people who may see different people arguing on this thread whether gentrification is happening in Northern Brooklyn. It is, and I've seen it first hand and LIVED in it.
I lived in Far Rockaway for about a year and I took the A train to Broadway Junction, and often transferred to the L train. A good number of whites got on and off the stops anywhere from Bedford Avenue to Myrtle Wycoff. I saw this all times of day and night.
For areas I've gotten off in East Williamsburg (read Bushwick) areas like the Jefferson stop I often went to various events that had bands and a mostly white crowd attending. Now, yes, there obviously where a lot of hispanics in the neighborhood, but there was also a decent white presence.
I think anon is trying to make the distinction between East Williamsburg and Bushwick so that we're all talking about the same thing. The semi-official definition of what Bushwick is the dotted outline you see here which is community board 4. In that definition, the Jefferson L station is the westernmost stop with the L serving the northern borders of Bushwick with Ridgewood (which has a fairly large Polish and other white population that are part of an ethnic community rather than the recently landed gentry), the M train serving the central parts of Bushwick, and the J/Z serving on the southern boundaries. The Jefferson L stop you're talking about is where there's the most gentrification in Bushwick, but it's also a really tiny part of Bushwick.
Gentrification is happening, but it's sometimes way overstated when looking at how large Bushwick is and the difference between the perception of the size and character of Bushwick for the hundred thousand or residents who are part of the large Hispanic community there and the perception of the size and character of Bushwick for the several thousands of mostly recently arrived people. I think when it comes to broad statements about Bushwick, it's definitely the latter that make the more inaccurate comments about the neighborhood as a whole.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 04-11-2013 at 11:43 AM..
I think anon is trying to make the distinction between East Williamsburg and Bushwick so that we're all talking about the same thing. The semi-official definition of what Bushwick is the dotted outline you see here which is community board 4. In that definition, the Jefferson L station is the westernmost stop with the L serving the northern borders of Bushwick with Ridgewood (which has a fairly large Polish and other white population that are part of an ethnic community rather than the recently landed gentry), the M train serving the central parts of Bushwick, and the J/Z serving on the southern boundaries. The Jefferson L stop you're talking about is where there's the most gentrification in Bushwick, but it's also a really tiny part of Bushwick.
Gentrification is happening, but it's sometimes way overstated when looking at how large Bushwick is and the difference between the perception of the size and character of Bushwick for the hundred thousand or residents who are part of the large Hispanic community there and the perception of the size and character of Bushwick for the several thousands of mostly recently arrived people. I think when it comes to broad statements about Bushwick, it's definitely the latter that make the more inaccurate comments about the neighborhood as a whole.
To be honest, I was referring to East Williamsburg as Bushwick and I would have considered areas West of Jefferson to be Bushwick. And they are indeed increasingly expensive and gentrified. I think articles that he complains about are also referring to the East Williamsburg area, as well as the areas near Jefferson that he considers the border of Bushwick.
Going by this it is Bushwick. Click neighborhoods towards the top right and zoom into the Bushwick area. Can't find any other NYC site that says the border is Flushing Ave.
To be honest, I was referring to East Williamsburg as Bushwick and I would have considered areas West of Jefferson to be Bushwick. And they are indeed increasingly expensive and gentrified. I think articles that he complains about are also referring to the East Williamsburg area, as well as the areas near Jefferson that he considers the border of Bushwick.
Right, that's why I'm saying you guys could both be right--you guys are talking about different definitions of Bushwick. The somewhat official definition of Bushwick doesn't include East Williamsburg and the various articles are all labeling parts that are officially East Williamsburg as Bushwick.
The referenced article is tongue and cheek. Yes the rents are rising, I would say mostly near the Jefferson and DeKalb stops. The fact remains that neighborhood is loud during the day and not safe at night. Someone told me that the show Glee has a couple characters living in Bushwick, which I find bizarre. It brings in even more artificial hype.
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the truth has finally come out and it is almost exactly what I expected... So you're telling me and everyone reading this, that you made your (pretty vocal and confident) assumptions of Bushwick based on the number of white folk that got off on the l train... 
wow... 
Exactly... To be fair though while the area is still about 75% Hispanic with a sizable south and central American population... The majority is still Carribbean Hispanics but that is quickly continuing to diminish. I'd say probably about 30% of the population in 2013 is still Puerto Rican while another 20% is Dominican...The other 25% and climbing though is Mexican and Ecuadorian and they are taking over all of the businesses that were previously run by Puerto Ricans and Dominicans... 
