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Well...you can jump to the assumption that they have lost a battle....but for all those social liberals who have won...just remember, you always hyphenate your friends, dont you?..oh he is my "gay" friend or he is my "black" friend.
Sometimes you think you won the battle of acceptance yet those you have accepted still trigger that little thought in your head...sort of like not trying to think about elephants after being told not to
People are not born believing a dogma from birth. It's indoctrinated into them by their families.
On the other hand, having a homosexual orientation is not something you chose, or can give up. You're born with it.
Some would disagree with the later, but I suppose that's for another discussion.
Either way, I think what some are referring to is that respect is a two way street. Anyone referring to anyone else's religious beliefs as "fairy tales" is really no different than any ones who's religious and personal beliefs state that "homosexuals" are sodomites. Saying either one can be considered offensive.
Some would disagree with the later, but I suppose that's for another discussion.
Either way, I think what some are referring to is that respect is a two way street. Anyone referring to anyone else's religious beliefs as "fairy tales" is really no different than any ones who's religious and personal beliefs state that "homosexuals" are sodomites. Saying either one can be considered offensive.
No, no, no. Invalid. False equivalency at its finest.
You'll notice, if you watch the New York Gay Pride parade (and most others), that churches, synagogues, and a whole variety of modern-thinking religious institutions participate. And you'll notice that there isn't a gay lobby attempting to persecute Christians or other religious people in this country. Christian kids don't grow up in America being ridiculed and belittled by gay classmates on account of their Christianity.
In other words, all of the disrespect and attempt to strip folks of their human rights is directed in one direction. And you're damn right that if somebody is going to use their religion as a weapon to try to attack me and a whole group of people - effectively bringing their religion into the public square - it is then fair game to be attacked. I posted in this forum to say I supported the Mayor's decision - minutes lately, somebody posts that their religion considers homosexuality a "perversion."
It is not the same as me going around and spewing hatred against Christians at random, which I don't do and never will do. I've noticed religious conservatives are very quick to use their religion to bash other groups, but when they are attacked in return, they scream bloody murder. Really?
I'm a friggin' atheist and I can't stand being bombarded with "gay is great" crap all day long. Why do you guys constantly have to shove your gayness down our throats? I was a big defender of gay rights, in a way I still am because I believe everyone should have the freedom to live however they want, but do you really have to talk about it so damn much?
No, no, no. Invalid. False equivalency at its finest.
You'll notice, if you watch the New York Gay Pride parade (and most others), that churches, synagogues, and a whole variety of modern-thinking religious institutions participate. And you'll notice that there isn't a gay lobby attempting to persecute Christians or other religious people in this country. Christian kids don't grow up in America being ridiculed and belittled by gay classmates on account of their Christianity.
In other words, all of the disrespect and attempt to strip folks of their human rights is directed in one direction. And you're damn right that if somebody is going to use their religion as a weapon to try to attack me and a whole group of people - effectively bringing their religion into the public square - it is then fair game to be attacked. It is not the same as me going around and spewing hatred against Christians at random.
I think you've missed the point here. How is it a "false equivalency" if someone who is gay refers to someones religious convictions (not necessarily about gays--but the religion itself) as "fairy tales" but in the same breath protest against someone who uses their religion to refer to gays as "sodomites?" An insult is an insult.
I think your line of reasoning is what ultimately creates the illusion that people are against gays when in fact they may just be more so against the double-standard of reasoning. Why is ok for someone to attack someone else's religion and assume that everyone within that religion is homophobic or against gays? How is that any different from someone who is "straight" from assuming that everyone who is gay has a "gay agenda" and are anti-heterosexual?
It sounds as if you think that it is ok to insult everyone's religious orientation because there is a certain extremist and vocal viewpoint within that community that disagrees with your orientation. If so, that's not a war that you are going to win with many people.
If you continue to reach and insist on making your point by calling someone elses religion a "fairy tale" then be prepared for those who you are insulting to reach back with an extremist viewpoint and insult you in the same manner.
Anyone referring to anyone else's religious beliefs as "fairy tales" is really no different than any ones who's religious and personal beliefs state that "homosexuals" are sodomites. Saying either one can be considered offensive.
No. It's not the same.
The former is most likely a fact. The latter is simply bigotry.
No. It's not the same.
The former is most likely a fact. The latter is simply bigotry.
Nope it isn't a "fact" and you can't prove that it is, anymore than I can that it isn't. Calling any opinion different from your own will not simply be brushed away as "bigotry" simply because someone doesn't necessarily agree with you.
I think you've missed the point here. How is it a "false equivalency" if someone who is gay refers to someones religious convictions (not necessarily about gays--but the religion itself) as "fairy tales" but in the same breath protest against someone who uses their religion to refer to gays as "sodomites?" An insult is an insult.
I think your line of reasoning is what ultimately creates the illusion that people are against gays when in fact they may just be more so against the double-standard of reasoning. Why is ok for someone to attack someone else's religion and assume that everyone within that religion is homophobic or against gays? How is that any different from someone who is "straight" from assuming that everyone who is gay has a "gay agenda" and are anti-heterosexual?
It sounds as if you think that it is ok to insult everyone's religious orientation because there is a certain extremist and vocal viewpoint within that community that disagrees with your orientation. If so, that's not a war that you are going to win with many people.
If you continue to reach and insist on making your point by calling someone elses religion a "fairy tale" then be prepared for those who you are insulting to reach back with an extremist viewpoint and insult you in the same manner.
I don't think you followed the chronology of this thread...
For the record, I don't care what folks call me. My point is, when religious people go around using their religion to bash other groups - as happened here - or trying to pass laws/regulations to harm other groups on the account of religious doctrine, they should fully expect their religion to come under fire. In our broader society and on public/Internet forums like this, you'll rarely find LGBT folks who are attempting to persecute Christians, or who spend their time trying to attack Christianity/religion for the heck of it.
Religious conservatives start these arguments, and don't like it when their quite easily criticized belief system is, in fact, criticized.
Nope it isn't a "fact" and you can't prove that it is, anymore than I can that it isn't.
You can't prove that there aren't any unicorns living in Saturn. Or that Zeus and Apollo aren't actual deities.
That doesn't mean holding those 'beliefs' shouldn't be looked upon with a high degree of skepticism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshim
Calling any opinion different from your own will not simply be brushed away as "bigotry" simply because someone doesn't necessarily agree with you.
The bible not only commends slavery, it also encourages it.
You can call believing that ' slavery is a good thing because the bible says so' an "opinion". I would call that bigotry. And I know that most (relatively reasonable) Christians would agree with that. The same applies to homosexuality. Any person with a slight level of intelligence would realize that claiming respect for beliefs that are discriminatory based on the writings of an archaic book is complete and total BS.
Last edited by likeminas; 02-21-2014 at 04:41 PM..
That's fair. You call his religion fairy tales and he can call homosexuals sodomites.
Religions are fairy tales. Magic apples, magic gardens, talking snakes...sounds like a disney movie, nothing compared to Carl Sagan's cosmos.
I understand why people need to believe, death is a difficult thing to accept, but I stop being so understanding when someone uses their coping mechanism as an excuse to suppress others.
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