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First off, the number of conductors/ train operators is a relatively small percentage of the entire MTA workforce. For every 1 conductor, you probably have 8-10 maintenance and cleaning personal.
My father had a friend who was an electrician with the MTA. Do you know what his job consisted of? Checking and changing light-bulbs. Very skilled.
It's not about the few dollars in increases. I have a monthly and it gets taken out of my paycheck pretax.
It's about 1 component of NYC which adds to the high cost of living for no reason other than to support an enormous and bloated government sector.
Whoever is part of the system has it good but those that are not, are left to suffer due to the high COL.
My parents arrived from the Soviet Union and over there it was the same. Those plugged in to the system led comfortable lives but those that weren't suffered.
Just because I have it good doesn't mean I don't acknowledge that the system has major drawbacks.
Bloomberg acknowledged this and that's why he always fought the city workers. Government work always traded security and stability for pay and benefits. Now city workers have security, stability, pay, and benefits. It's absurd.
So you basically hate it when other people have it good and you want the MTA workers struggling and starving and barefoot? According to you, everyone should suffer?
Maintenance workers do dangerous work too. There's track maintenance and other MTA equipment that has to be maintained. Cleaning personnel are cleaning a system that is the backbone of New York's economy. They deserve everything they get.
The highest cost of living in NYC is the real estate sector, which is privately owned. But if people can't deal with the MTA, no one is forced to take public transportation. Buy a private car. Of course, there's the cost of the car itself, plus gasoline, plus maintaining the car, plus the car insurance. Add in tolls and parking and it costs you fantastically more than taking public transportation.
It's not absurd that the people who work in jobs and help the country's financial capital run are able to make a living wage from their jobs.
So really, what's the source of your hatred? Are the MTA workers better paid than you?
The highest cost of living in NYC is the real estate sector, which is privately owned. But if people can't deal with the MTA, no one is forced to take public transportation. Buy a private car. Of course, there's the cost of the car itself, plus gasoline, plus maintaining the car, plus the car insurance. Add in tolls and parking and it costs you fantastically more than taking public transportation.
Car sales taxes ---> Fund the MTA
Tolls, 80% which ----> Fund MTA/NYCT
Parking taxes ----> Fund the MTA
Drivers License Fees ---> Fund the MTA
Car Registration Fees ----> Fund the MTA
The private ownership costs that are fantastically more than public transportation is because public transportation is priced artificially low and subsidized by private drivers of whom many cannot fully benefit from the system.
MTA fares are based not on distance, or cost to operate- but on the sheer perceived income of the masses who ride them.
You can defend the workers of the MTA all you want... however people are rightfully upset because they're paid well for a system that isn't very good. The annual surveys reflect this, yet the Governor is powerless to hatchet a lot of employees, but for some reason cannot bring them up to a standard of courtesy and cleanliness.
So you basically hate it when other people have it good and you want the MTA workers struggling and starving and barefoot? According to you, everyone should suffer?
Maintenance workers do dangerous work too. There's track maintenance and other MTA equipment that has to be maintained. Cleaning personnel are cleaning a system that is the backbone of New York's economy. They deserve everything they get.
The highest cost of living in NYC is the real estate sector, which is privately owned. But if people can't deal with the MTA, no one is forced to take public transportation. Buy a private car. Of course, there's the cost of the car itself, plus gasoline, plus maintaining the car, plus the car insurance. Add in tolls and parking and it costs you fantastically more than taking public transportation.
It's not absurd that the people who work in jobs and help the country's financial capital run are able to make a living wage from their jobs.
So really, what's the source of your hatred? Are the MTA workers better paid than you?
Some are better paid and some aren't but of course that's not the point.
Back on topic. Folks like you never tackle the actual problem. You skirt the issue of corruption and vast inefficiencies in the system. Is that OK by you? The only people who really ignore these facts are those who benefit from them (directly or indirectly via family).
Plenty of jobs are dangerous; truck drivers, roofers, loggers, etc.
It is clear and evident that based on the overall job market, MTA employees on average are vastly overpaid for their skills and thus are not as productive as their private sector counterparts. This isn't even debatable.
The pay would be fine if they produced. The facts testify to the fact that they don't. When 60% of the MTA's budget goes to pay and pensions then yes, pay and pensions need to be talked about.
You can argue about the various approaches to fix the MTA (maybe your approach would be different from mine and that's valid) but arguing that everything is a-ok is absurd.
If private bus or rail companies pay their employees 10MM a year, I couldn't care less. If they're profitable, then they can pay whatever they wish. On the other hand, when a qausi-public, government sanctioned monopoly can't keep their books balanced due to vast bloat and corruption and therefore have to raid consumers pockets, you can't claim that everything is OK.
I'd be OK with their pay and benefits if they raised their productivity, as would most NY'ers.
Last edited by wawaweewa; 01-27-2015 at 03:15 PM..
Surge Pricing?
The MTA cannot even figure out a way to get the Metrocards to work. Even tokens were more reliable.
eh, ill take that vs a train stopped due to an electrical fire inside a tunnel where one passenger died and the smoke filled up the train and tunnel while emergency services took over 40 minutes to respond.
yea, our metro isn't necessarily better than NYCs. id say worse. maye not as dirty but more broken.
Car sales taxes ---> Fund the MTA
Tolls, 80% which ----> Fund MTA/NYCT
Parking taxes ----> Fund the MTA
Drivers License Fees ---> Fund the MTA
Car Registration Fees ----> Fund the MTA
The private ownership costs that are fantastically more than public transportation is because public transportation is priced artificially low and subsidized by private drivers of whom many cannot fully benefit from the system.
MTA fares are based not on distance, or cost to operate- but on the sheer perceived income of the masses who ride them.
You can defend the workers of the MTA all you want... however people are rightfully upset because they're paid well for a system that isn't very good. The annual surveys reflect this, yet the Governor is powerless to hatchet a lot of employees, but for some reason cannot bring them up to a standard of courtesy and cleanliness.
The governor is not powerless. They could theoretically do it. I surmise that the MTA leadership actually would like to do it because the bloat is real at the MTA.
The political implications are huge so no one wants to touch it. This goes for most city agencies. WHEN Bloomberg gave the OK to shut down a few fire stations, they made him out to be the devil incarnate.
Some are better paid and some aren't but of course that's not the point.
Back on topic. Folks like you never tackle the actual problem. You skirt the issue of corruption and vast inefficiencies in the system. Is that OK by you? The only people who really ignore these facts are those who benefit from them (directly or indirectly via family).
Plenty of jobs are dangerous; truck drivers, roofers, loggers, etc.
It is clear and evident that based on the overall job market, MTA employees on average are vastly overpaid for their skills and thus are not as productive as their private sector counterparts. This isn't even debatable.
The pay would be fine if they produced. The facts testify to the fact that they don't. When 60% of the MTA's budget goes to pay and pensions then yes, pay and pensions need to be talked about.
You can argue about the various approaches to fix the MTA (maybe your approach would be different from mine and that's valid) but arguing that everything is a-ok is absurd.
If private bus or rail companies pay their employees 10MM a year, I couldn't care less. If they're profitable, then they can pay whatever they wish. On the other hand, when a qausi-public, government sanctioned monopoly can't keep their books balanced due to vast bloat and corruption and therefore have to raid consumers pockets, you can't claim that everything is OK.
I'd be OK with their pay and benefits if they raised their productivity, as would most NY'ers.
The situation at the MTA has absolutely no negative effect on me, and I am A-OK with it. I get on the train, ride it to where I need it to go, and it functions. No problems that concern me.
I could careless where the MTA's budget goes too.
And who are you to even propose fixing the MTA? Do you have any real experience in running transportation companies that are effectively public utilities? Any experience in dealing with public sector unions? Or you just going by what you read in a newspaper article?
Expertidis, that terrible disease where everyone is an expert on everything all the time, strikes again. People with no knowledge of something become all knowing experts from reading the occasional newspaper article.
Last edited by NyWriterdude; 01-27-2015 at 03:46 PM..
The situation at the MTA has absolutely no negative effect on me, and I am A-OK with it. I get on the train, ride it to where I need it to go, and it functions. No problems that concern me.
I could careless where the MTA's budget goes too.
And who are you to even propose fixing the MTA? Do you have any real experience in running transportation companies that are effectively public utilities? Any experience in dealing with public sector unions?
Expertidis, that terrible disease where everyone is an expert on everything all the time, strikes again.
IF you think the situation at the MTA has no negative effect on you then you're either lying or dumb. There's no other way about it. That's akin to claiming that NY's tax policy or budget has no effect on you either way.
I don't need expertise in order to see that the MTA is bloated and inefficient.
If you want expertise:
Quote:
Tunneling in any dense urban environment is an expensive proposition, but the $5 billion price tag for just the first two miles of the Second Avenue subway cannot be explained by engineering difficulties. The segment runs mainly beneath a single broad avenue, unimpeded by rivers, super-tall skyscraper foundations or other subway lines.
American taxpayers will shell out many times what their counterparts in developed cities in Europe and Asia would pay. In the case of the Second Avenue line and other new rail infrastructure in New York City, they may have to pay five times as much.
....
One of the case studies that the inspector general examined was a staircase replacement at Great Neck, a busy express station on the LIRR's Port Washington branch. Even after adjusting expectations to fit public sector wages and work rules, Kluger's office found that labor costs for the low-tech project to replace a single staircase exceeded $260,000, when they should have amounted to less than $100,000.
The LIRR is known as the most inefficient of the regional railroads in the New York area -- a reputation partly earned by the massive disability pension fraud scandal first uncovered by the New York Times in 2008 -- but its problems are hardly unique.
In 2010, Michael Horodniceanu, president of the MTA's Capital Construction division, cited similar labor inefficiencies in the agency's tunnel-boring work. In response to a question from blogger Benjamin Kabak about the MTA's high capital costs, Horodniceanu claimed that thanks to inefficient labor rules and practices, New York subway tunnel boring operations require 25 workers, while Spanish transit builders get away with only nine.
IF you think the situation at the MTA has no negative effect on you then you're either lying or dumb. There's no other way about it. That's akin to claiming that NY's tax policy or budget has no effect on you either way.
I don't need expertise in order to see that the MTA is bloated and inefficient.
So just as I expected, you have no real knowledge of the MTA's matters or public transportation of your own. So all you can do is read articles here and there.
But you've no ability to actually critique these articles, because you have no knowledge of the subject matter.
For that matter, I have no actual knowledge of the subject matter. I leave figuring that out to people who have careers in that field who know much more about it than you or I ever will. My life in NY is fine, and I am happy to be in one of the few places in the US that has a functional transportation system. As for my intelligence, I am Ivy League educated. Where did you go to school?
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