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I get on the 4 or 5 at Nevins St. in Brooklyn and it is already PACKED by that point. At least once a week I have to wait for another train to come before I can even get on. It is absolutely terrible until Grand Central/42nd when the majority of the train gets off. The 4/5/6 lines are the only ones which serve the east side whereas the west side has many more options so they are not as crowded. Since they are over capacity they also have fequent delays and you can often watch the 6 local train fly by the 4 and 5 express. It's terrible.
The only train I have ever had decent experiences with during rush hour is the R train. It never seems to be too crowded but that may be because it stops every 20 feet in Manhattan.
Thanks for the info on the lexington line. As I expected, most answers were "depends on the route". Any examples? Are there any subway lines that see pretty low usage despite going into manhattan? Are there any bus routes to avoid due to the crowds?
Yeah that has been my experience going downtown on the 4 as well. I am at the end of the line though so luckily I usualy have first dibs on seats in the morning.
Now I'm only in my 20s, so I'm just curious. Has it always been like this? Were the subways this packed back in the 1970s/1980s?
A lot of people in this country are always shocked when they see a clip on the news showing how packed the subways are in Japan. To be honest I think being on the subway in Manhattan during rush hour is just about as bad as anything I have seen in Tokyo. Except in Tokyo the trains don't seem to get backed up and run slower like they do here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffcon0
I get on the 4 or 5 at Nevins St. in Brooklyn and it is already PACKED by that point. At least once a week I have to wait for another train to come before I can even get on. It is absolutely terrible until Grand Central/42nd when the majority of the train gets off. The 4/5/6 lines are the only ones which serve the east side whereas the west side has many more options so they are not as crowded. Since they are over capacity they also have fequent delays and you can often watch the 6 local train fly by the 4 and 5 express. It's terrible.
The only train I have ever had decent experiences with during rush hour is the R train. It never seems to be too crowded but that may be because it stops every 20 feet in Manhattan.
Mead, I have not been to Tokyo so I don't have first hand experience with the transit there but it certainly does seem more efficient. So efficient, in fact, that they give you a note stating that the train was behind schedule to present to your employer. I can't imagine things ever running that smoothly here. Another interesting feature of Japanese subway cars I have heard is that during rush hour the seats are all folded up and locked into place. Imagine how much more room this would create on our subway trains! I'm sure they don't do something like this here because all the lazy slobs who like to stretch out over two seats would be up in arms. I really think something as simple as retractable seats would go a long way toards solving the subway crowding. Of course it would also help if people used more common sense like not blocking the exits, not holding the doors, and moving as far into the center as possible.
One other thing which kills me: "We are experiencing delays due to a sick passenger at 42nd street." I don't understand this. Get that passenger off the train and onto the platform so trains can keep moving instead of bringing thousands of riders' commutes to a screeching halt.
Thanks for the info on the lexington line. As I expected, most answers were "depends on the route". Any examples? Are there any subway lines that see pretty low usage despite going into manhattan? Are there any bus routes to avoid due to the crowds?
Location, location, location. For example, I'm going to compare the E and the M trains during rush hours.
E Train: Jamaica, Queens to World Trade Center via Midtown, scheduled every 4 to 5 minutes or 15 trains per hour, roughly.
M Train: Middle Village, Queens to Bensonhurst, Brooklyn via Lower Manhattan. Trains are scheduled every 10 minutes during rush, or 6 trains per hour.
Both trains serve Lower Manhattan, but the E goes to Midtown and the M does not. The neighborhoods the E train serves has a higher amount of passengers who use public transportation, i.e. much more people along that route. Also, both terminals on the E are extremely busy because they happen to be on busy avenues, with important transfer points.
The M on the other hand sees moderate crowds during rush, moderate being that you won't find a seat depending how far into the route you are, but you will not be packed like sardines like on the E. Also the M does not travel to Midtown, where most people head off to work. Lower Manhattan is equally important, but it does not have the sheer amount of people heading there. Also the rush hour southern terminal of the M shares the station with the D, which heads express into Lower Manhattan and Midtown. The northern terminal of the M, Middle Village, is located in front of a cemetery and no houses for a good distance. Most who use that station are transfers from buses. Location, location, location.
Regarding buses, you can't really avoid them if you need to use that particular route. You just have to squeeze your way in or wait for the next one. There are hundreds of bus routes in NYC, and for the most part, they do get crowded. On time performance is a serious issue that makes NYC buses useless, but you have to factor many things such as stupid customers, heavy traffic, unsynchronized traffic lights, wheelchair passengers, stupid operators, slowly defective buses and so on. Besides that, again, location, location, location.
Yes, buses do connect well with subways and mostly serve locations that are not within reasonable walking distance of a subway station. They feed the subways. They are a vital transportation link in the outer boroughs. My neighborhood in Brooklyn is not near a subway line, so a bus route serves the neighborhood by taking people to a subway station on the Q line.
It is usually sardine-packed with people during the morning rush, crowded in the evening, but often empty after 10PM. In general, it does a pretty good job, though.
There are also "Express Buses" that serve many of the farther out neighborhoods in the outer boroughs. These are more comfortable "motorcoach" style buses that pick people up in a particular area, then take the Expressway HOV lanes into Manhattan. A lot less crowded than regular mass transit because it costs $5 a ride and unlimited-ride Metrocards cannot be used. The express buses have their loyal following. In my neighborhood, they seem to be particularly popular with middle-aged women. I take the express bus a couple of times a week as a little break from the "Q train crush".
I'll also add that unlike other cities where public transportation is used mostly by the poor - EVERYONE in NYC takes it - at least to get to their jobs in Manhattan. Driving is just too impractical and expensive.
wow. Thanks for all the information BTW. I love learning about tranist of all types. Frankly, I wish transit in Toronto worked as well as it seems to in NYC.
Now I'm only in my 20s, so I'm just curious. Has it always been like this? Were the subways this packed back in the 1970s/1980s?
Today's subways are a day at the beach compared to the late '60s-mid '80s. Truly. For one thing, most of the system has a/c in the summer. I remember 40 minute delays on the Lex IRT (i.e. 4, 5 & 6 lines) from Union Sq. to 86th St, packed in an idle, sweltering car between stations. No air, no escape, no idea how much longer we'd be stuck. Enough to incite claustrophic panic attacks.
The subway is also much cleaner (hard to believe, but true). They are running longer trains more frequently, and delays now are fewer and much briefer than they were then.
I have a very hard time complaining about today's subways when I remember the way they were 30-40 years ago.
As for getting a seat, I used to work in the City Hall area. Coming up the West Side, I'd take the #1 from Chambers St. I didn't travel at the height of rush hour, and I always got a seat.
Thats interesting. I knew it was dirtier, but I honestly can't remember much stuff prior to 1990 because I'm not that old.
I complain about the dirtyness of the subway system all the time. However my only point of reference are other subway networks that I've visited in other parts of the USA and around the world in Asia and Europe. I can't really remember seeing the subway cars with the heavy graffitti all over the place like I've seen videos and pictures of from the early 1980s.
What about the sheer number of people though? Does it generally seem more crowded today than it was a couple of decades ago?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbro
Today's subways are a day at the beach compared to the late '60s-mid '80s. Truly. For one thing, most of the system has a/c in the summer. I remember 40 minute delays on the Lex IRT (i.e. 4, 5 & 6 lines) from Union Sq. to 86th St, packed in an idle, sweltering car between stations. No air, no escape, no idea how much longer we'd be stuck. Enough to incite claustrophic panic attacks.
The subway is also much cleaner (hard to believe, but true). They are running longer trains more frequently, and delays now are fewer and much briefer than they were then.
I have a very hard time complaining about today's subways when I remember the way they were 30-40 years ago.
As for getting a seat, I used to work in the City Hall area. Coming up the West Side, I'd take the #1 from Chambers St. I didn't travel at the height of rush hour, and I always got a seat.
I used to ride the #1 frequently as a teenager in 1978 and 1979. At that time the 1 was considered one of the more dangerous lines. Now it seems amongst the most mellow and safe
I cannot get over though how the 42 street and 8th Avenue station has changed for the better. Back then i would never go into that station alone
I remembered first seeing the Guardian Angels on the #5 train in early 1980 and what a novelty it was to see them. This was a few months after they formed
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