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That's not necessarily a benefit. They say there could be gains, but there might not be. As far as time gained and time lost on individual bases, that's not clear cut either because the ridership on the non-express stop could be higher which means even if the individual riders "lose" less time than those gained by others, you're missing the part where you're multiplying by ridership. Sure, they can give it a test run (though seems like a terrible idea without fixing the Bergen stop's other level first) to check first, but it's much ado about very little overall. The biggest issue is that the F train express they'd be running from Church wouldn't save that much time overall, but would certainly confuse a lot of people. This really won't become useful until there's something akin to a fifth phase of the Second Avenue Subway to Brooklyn.
B to Ocean Parkway every day is a real actual improvement. Small gain for a small price. Also, B train to Stillwell on seasonal weekends is sensible and feasible. The B train is a real express train with long runs between subsequent stops so less time is spent simply accelerating and decelerating, plus it's bi-directional trackage all the way to Ocean Parkway. The F express in the context of a beach express really doesn't net an overall gain of much of anything in terms of getting to the beach quickly. Plus, the Q and this extended service B to Stillwell on weekends, would be the only service that hit all four beach stops so it'd make for a beach shuttle of sorts, too.
I'm not talking about the (F) express in the context of a beach express. I'm just talking about it in general (it happens to go to Coney Island, so it's somewhat relevant, but even for the stops between Neptune & Church I think they warrant express service).
In any case, they say 48% of riders will gain 3.4 minutes, while 52% of riders will lose 1.3 minutes. Doing some quick math, 0.48*3.4 = 1.632, whereas 0.52*-1.3 = -0.676, and then you multiply those coefficients by the daily ridership at the times of day when the express runs to get the passenger-minutes saved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Yes, I saw that. It might be that the diamond crossover is too far out from Ocean Parkway so that the effective switching time is too long--I heard that's the case somewhere further out in Queens on the IND Queens Boulevard line. Hopefully that's not the case as the two stations are about half a mile from each other.
The station is Jamaica Center on the (E) wasn't planned to be a permanent terminal (the (E) was supposed to be extended east). That's the reason that some (E) trains go to 179th during rush hour, which has a lot more capacity.
I'm not talking about the (F) express in the context of a beach express. I'm just talking about it in general (it happens to go to Coney Island, so it's somewhat relevant, but even for the stops between Neptune & Church I think they warrant express service).
In any case, they say 48% of riders will gain 3.4 minutes, while 52% of riders will lose 1.3 minutes. Doing some quick math, 0.48*3.4 = 1.632, whereas 0.52*-1.3 = -0.676, and then you multiply those coefficients by the daily ridership at the times of day when the express runs to get the passenger-minutes saved.
The station is Jamaica Center on the (E) wasn't planned to be a permanent terminal (the (E) was supposed to be extended east). That's the reason that some (E) trains go to 179th during rush hour, which has a lot more capacity.
It's a fine idea to try to run the F express. I don't think it'll end up netting people much and the confusion it'd introduce will probably outweigh the time savings that less than half the ridership would get, but it's worth a shot since the equipment is there. For going all the way to Neptune, you're talking about peak direction only kind of express, right? I'm pretty sure that's not in the cards right now.
Yes, that's the stop I was thinking of. I think it's likely the diamond crossover would need to be built close to the Ocean Parkway stop instead for this to function, but I'm not actually sure since the B train doesn't run with great frequency anyhow.
I'm not talking about the (F) express in the context of a beach express. I'm just talking about it in general (it happens to go to Coney Island, so it's somewhat relevant, but even for the stops between Neptune & Church I think they warrant express service).
In any case, they say 48% of riders will gain 3.4 minutes, while 52% of riders will lose 1.3 minutes. Doing some quick math, 0.48*3.4 = 1.632, whereas 0.52*-1.3 = -0.676, and then you multiply those coefficients by the daily ridership at the times of day when the express runs to get the passenger-minutes saved.
The station is Jamaica Center on the (E) wasn't planned to be a permanent terminal (the (E) was supposed to be extended east). That's the reason that some (E) trains go to 179th during rush hour, which has a lot more capacity.
F express service harms more people than it helps. Period. End of story. Stop trying to rationalize it by suggesting that the fewer people it helps will save more time. That is a ridiculous argument, considering that at the end of day, more people willl see their commute lengthed. And you conviently ignore the MTA's own findings that the additional merger and dividing might cancel out anytime savings.
The bottom line is, there are a lot of people boarding the F on the local stops in Brooklyn. And unless you can run express trains without interfering with local train frequency (which you can't) it makes no sense to run express. Same with the N train, the south Brooklyn neighborhoods it runs through are experiencing population growth (mostly Chinese).
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