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Mathjak btw good to see you recovered. I have a question about (pre)foreclosures. In the only part of the Bronx I know about, a condo mega-complex, there used to be about 120 (pre)foreclosures (mostly pre-) at any particular time, prior to 2016. Then, during the first half of that year, the number of them gradually dropped to the half. In the past few years, the number of pre-foreclosures at any particular time has been generally around 35-40... but, in the past month that number dropped down to only 12 (the ones listed now are mostly larger units, 10 of them were placed in pre-foreclosure around the time the Covid situation started, and 2 have been in pre-foreclosure for over two years). The prices of these 12 pre-foreclosures are generally about the same as the regular listing prices. What do you think might be behind the disappearance of pre-foreclosures, and the fact that the remaining few are priced the same as regular sales? Is it the fact that mortgages are so favorable that everyone can pay them off without delinquency, or what?
Pros tend to buy packages at discounts from the bank so they don’t deal one by one .
Depending who is foreclosing if it is coop the building gets first crack if maintaince is not paid ..then they flip it at regular price ..coop mortgages individuals get are junior to the building mortgage and building maintenance.
Technically a personal mortgage in a coop is a second mortgage if the building has one
Last edited by mathjak107; 02-02-2021 at 10:43 AM..
your comments don't make sense. NYC has one of the lowest property tax rates in the tri state area. The property tax rate in the city is mostly lower than 1%, whereas in LI or Westchester, it is like 2% or more.
I bet post-covid, the value of single family will explode. The condo/coop market may be struggling, as a lot of people prefer space over better commuting
Properties that are still using out of date values are super expensive. If it gets reassessed it will make ownership impossible for whomever. That's how those crap run down houses cost so much, people are bidding up properties that have not been reassessed.
It is something you can do yourself. No lawyers needed.
As I understand it, the tax bill is based on two things - the assessed value multiplied by the tax rate. I checked those numbers on my bills from 2015-2020. For that five year period, the assessed value of my home went up exactly 20% although some years the assessed value increase was zero, or less than 6%. In 2020, the assessed value increased by 12.36%. The tax rate went up 10.49% from 2015 to 2020. (.19157 in 2015; .2167 in 2020).
So it appears that there is no clerical error. The assessed value increased the maximum allowed of 20% over five years. The tax rate also increased 10.49% over that period. I am not aware of any limits on increasing the tax rate. The increases in both the assessed value and the tax rate resulted in a 33% increase in my taxes over a five year period. The biggest increase took place in 2020 when they increased the assessed value by 12.36%.
Properties that are still using out of date values are super expensive. If it gets reassessed it will make ownership impossible for whomever. That's how those crap run down houses cost so much, people are bidding up properties that have not been reassessed.
This seems like an easy oversight. The likely problem is flippers and wholesalers passing leads off quick with no due diligence to big boys who have fat pockets, and don't care about overpaying 30-40% for a 10+ year horizon.
NYC property tax system is a mess. a lot of condos are paying very high taxes while some brownstones are paying too little. but it is very risky to buy into the properties with low taxes, since the city might overhaul the system.
anyway, I believe the single family market in safe neighborhoods has a lot of potential and condos in Manhattan will probably keep struggling. A single family house in Queens was selling for the same price as a one-bedroom in Manhattan pre-covid. Now, it is probably selling for the same as two-bd in Manhattan. But i think the fair price should be around a three-bed
Quote:
Originally Posted by fedex1
Remember that NYC has a city income tax in addition to the property tax.
Also it is true that in general the property tax is low, but if we look at the details, it is much lower for 1 to 3 family homes in general. And coops, condos, and rentals (without the full 421A exemption) pay much more.
And within class 1 (one to three family home) Park Slope pays the least while Queens, Bay Ridge, and Staten Island pay much more.
Why? you ask. Well, that's in the law S7000A. The assessed value in 1980 really matters. So if you build a new 1 family building today, it comes on the tax roll at 6% of market value. Let's say $1 Million is the market value, therefore $60,000 is the assessed value. But a building that was assessed at $1000 in 1980 with no "improvements" can only be assessed at $4,801.02 Even if the market value is $10Million That's a big difference.
One interesting thing about New York City is you can buy the low assessment. When you buy there is no re-assessment to full assessment such as California. So you can buy the low property tax bill. This is one of the reasons that Park Slope buildings keep rising in market value.
NYC property tax system is a mess. a lot of condos are paying very high taxes while some brownstones are paying too little. but it is very risky to buy into the properties with low taxes, since the city might overhaul the system.
anyway, I believe the single family market in safe neighborhoods has a lot of potential and condos in Manhattan will probably keep struggling. A single family house in Queens was selling for the same price as a one-bedroom in Manhattan pre-covid. Now, it is probably selling for the same as two-bd in Manhattan. But i think the fair price should be around a three-bed
Neither NYS nor NYC is going to overhaul city's property tax system unless or until there is a gun to their heads. The only group that would lose is single to three family homes that are taxed often far less than they should. Co-op and condo units on average pay far more, and commercial property (which includes rental) carries highest burden.
Just as with rent there are plenty of single to three family homeowners who barely can afford the comparatively low taxes they are paying now. Many of these homes are in areas with high numbers of minorities and others who are crying already. If their property tax rates go up they will be in a bind as many are barely holding on as things stand now.
What state and city should do is simply remove the cap that prevents single-three family homes from immediate increases or decreases in taxes, but rather phases them in over several years. Commercial properties don't have that protection which is why city is always quick to tap that well first while not touching single family homes.
Compared to NJ, Conn, LI and Westchester NYC homeowners pay comparatively low property taxes. As a result city services and amenities are often busted. That and city has to tack on an income tax on top of property to make up some of that revenue.
People who have crunched the numbers and made that move to suburbs already know this; yes they pay more in property taxes but local public schools, hospitals and every other amenity or service is streets better than what most get in NYC.
OTOH you can stay in NYC but have to pay for your kid to attend private school for all or part of education. This unless you happen to live in an area zoned for top K-5 and 6-8 public school, and BdeB along with usual suspects are trying to bust that up.
Soon as you enter NJ via any of the bridges or tunnels you hit smooth roads. Coming back you know you're in city soon as you exit same by the sad state of roads (pot holes galore).
Pros tend to buy packages at discounts from the bank so they don’t deal one by one .
Depending who is foreclosing if it is coop the building gets first crack if maintaince is not paid ..then they flip it at regular price ..coop mortgages individuals get are junior to the building mortgage and building maintenance.
Technically a personal mortgage in a coop is a second mortgage if the building has one
As you know, the specific complex I am talking about is a condo assoc, not a coop. I think all the pre-foreclosures are by banks, for delinquent mortgages (as far as I know, the condo assoc puts liens on units for non-payment of maintenance, but is not terribly interested in foreclosing on units). At least every time I saw a (pre)foreclosed unit auctioned in PC, it was auctioned off by a bank.
As I understand it, the tax bill is based on two things - the assessed value multiplied by the tax rate. I checked those numbers on my bills from 2015-2020. For that five year period, the assessed value of my home went up exactly 20% although some years the assessed value increase was zero, or less than 6%. In 2020, the assessed value increased by 12.36%. The tax rate went up 10.49% from 2015 to 2020. (.19157 in 2015; .2167 in 2020).
So it appears that there is no clerical error. The assessed value increased the maximum allowed of 20% over five years. The tax rate also increased 10.49% over that period. I am not aware of any limits on increasing the tax rate. The increases in both the assessed value and the tax rate resulted in a 33% increase in my taxes over a five year period. The biggest increase took place in 2020 when they increased the assessed value by 12.36%.
Ok, but one minor point, the assessed value cannot increase by more than 6% in any year without an "improvement" (meaning building permits/cost affidavits) If you are saying that your property tax increased by 12.36% That is possible. Because of the tax rate changes. You are correct, there is an even more complicated tax rating fixing formula thanks to S7000A. I'd love to have people look at that formula. It is described https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/omb/down...gy-2020-03.pdf NYC OMB budgeting document. (Search for "Class Share")
Also another thing to note is New York City's fiscal year is July 1 to June 30 so the year that they are talking about in the law is the NYC Fiscal Year. You may be using the calendar year.
If you go to https://tax.tidalforce.org and put in the address and then post the assessment change percent by address numbers here we can see it clearer.
You can modify the numbers slightly to make it anonymous.
Ok, but one minor point, the assessed value cannot increase by more than 6% in any year without an "improvement" (meaning building permits/cost affidavits) If you are saying that your property tax increased by 12.36% That is possible.
Also another thing to note is New York City's fiscal year is July 1 to June 30 so the year that they are talking about in the law is the NYC Fiscal Year. You may be using the calendar year.
No, I am saying my property’s assessed value increased by 12.36% in one year. If you read the law as listed on the notice of property value there is an “or” condition, not an “and” when it talks about maximum 6% per year OR 20% over five years. Read the statement carefully and note the word “or”.
Quote:
Under state law, your assessed value cannot increase more than 6% per year or 20% over five years, regardless of increases to your property’s market value, unless the increases are due to construction or renovations.
The way I read that is that my property met the second condition, not more than 20% over five years. The “or” is the important word. It doesn’t say “cannot increase more than 6% per year AND not more than 20% over five years”. You seem to have expertise with property taxes but I believe you misinterpreted that sentence.
As far as the fiscal year vs. calendar year, the values and tax rates I posted were for the start of the fiscal year in July as stated on the June bills due in July.
Properties that are still using out of date values are super expensive. If it gets reassessed it will make ownership impossible for whomever. That's how those crap run down houses cost so much, people are bidding up properties that have not been reassessed.
There is no "reassessment" to full assessment in New York City currently for tax class 1 and 2. (mostly residential)
There is a seemingly slow exponential growth of the assessed value towards the maximum assessment ratio (assessed value / market value) depending on tax class.
The only ways to get larger jumps in the assessed value is "improvements" or "new construction"
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