Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Generally cheaper for the end user, definitely more efficient overall, which then sometimes cheaper for the developer and sometimes not. And yea, a good deal of modern construction is electric anyway and that does often have to do with it being cheaper.
Frankly, what we should be doing is concentrating on making a better grid rather than the working on this inefficient diversion towards natural gas. There are many, many tried and true pathways to converting myriad energy sources into electricity which by itself is generally much more flexible in use and cheaper in transmission. This is not the case for natural gas and we're basically sinking money into endpoint distribution for something far less effective and better spent time and resource-wise on expanding and improving the grid.
Is there comparison about electricity being cheaper for general user? Last time I looked at dryers, the ones with natural gas were considerably cheaper to operate. It is the case for stoves I believe as well, I am not sure about heating.
Yes, really. Natural gas heating has a max theoretical COP of 1. Heat pumps now have a COPs of up to 4-6 in cool weather in practice and still 2 and above down to the -10Fs and reach parity of ~1 when you're in the -20Fs. You live in New York City, probably have all your life, and you should probably well know that we don't get -30Fs bulb temperatures, we have never gotten -30Fs or below as far as records show. Let's be generous and say natural gas heaters here gets that theoretical COP of 1. Let's also stack the deck against heat pumps and say that a combined cycle natural gas generator which gets around 60% efficiency to electrical gets hit hard hit by a worst case scenario 8% transmission and distribution loss to ~55%. Let's make it even worse and just give an easy for layman 50% loss. Now with the same amount of natural gas being used for generation and distributed as electricity to heat pumps, that means heat pumps are still as efficient as natural gas direct delivery with a theoretical COP of 1 down to the -10Fs. How often does NYC go into the -20Fs bulb temperature territory? Because that's the only time periods where natural gas heating would have heated more efficiently (though that's for air-source; if you use more expensive ground-source heat pumps, you can efficiently go much lower). Compare that to all the rest of the whole damn year where you might want heat when it dips down below 50F.
Now if you don't like actually using math, or physics and engineering aren't for you, then let's try something easier. Recent years have seen a large deployment of heat pumps in Maine. A lot of people who are updating their HVAC systems in Maine in recent years have switched to heat pumps there. Before that and still ongoing, heat pumps have been the heating source of choice for much of developed East Asia including such tropical wonderlands like Hokkaido in Japan. How much colder do you really think New York City is compared to these places?
The greater issue here with "eejits" as you put it is that we have a lot of them who are basically either stuck in time and don't understand that technology changes or are so mathematically and scientifically illiterate that it's all gobbledygook to them anyways--or a combination of both. There's a whole eejit committee of derpyderps and co. you can find all over the place, even this board, and they're kinda screwing it up for all the rest of us.
Is there comparison about electricity being cheaper for general user? Last time I looked at dryers, the ones with natural gas were considerably cheaper to operate. It is the case for stoves I believe as well, I am not sure about heating.
Don't know about dryers tbqh--definitely a massive efficiency advantage for induction stoves versus natural gas stoves and heat pumps versus natural gas heating and a somewhat smaller advantage depending a bit on siting for water boilers. Even if natural gas dryers were more efficient, they'd be a pittance compared to the efficiency gains on the other categories.
Induction stoves do have a notable disadvantage in that a pretty decent number of cookware is incompatible with it.
I guess it makes enough sense though I don't recall ever encountering this in Europe or East Asia, though I wasn't specifically checking for these anyways.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 12-15-2021 at 04:26 PM..
This has been years in the making. They were giving builders a hard time since 2018 (not approving/dragging feet with approval of permits).
Yea, years of the making where they're dragging their feet when this should have been apparent in the 2000s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBMW
The state of feds need to overruled lot of the garbage coming out of city hall before these idiots destroy the city.
This is one of instances where the motives leading up to this incidentally lead to economically reasonable policy, but also one of the many instances where that completely is beyond your comprehension. We at least agree that there are idiots who destroy the city like those who so confidently weigh in on things they have no goddamn understanding of.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
