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Here's something I'm surprised I don't know offhand. Are new construction buildings required to provide central heat at the landlord's expense? Or can the developers build individual heaters into the apartments where the tenants pay to run them (paying the gas or electric bills for them.)?
Old buildings are somewhat stuck with what they have. But builders may not care how they have to fuel heat if they can just force that expense directly onto the tenants.
Here's something I'm surprised I don't know offhand. Are new construction buildings required to provide central heat at the landlord's expense? Or can the developers build individual heaters into the apartments where the tenants pay to run them (paying the gas or electric bills for them.)?
Old buildings are somewhat stuck with what they have. But builders may not care how they have to fuel heat if they can just force that expense directly onto the tenants.
Buildings have never been required to provide central heating or hot water at LL expense. There are zoning and other rules/laws requiring that a LL must provide means for heat or hot water, but who actually pays is another matter.
Early on new developments were installing PTAC units, that pi$$ed off BdeB and green liberals so they changed zoning to punish such things. Now those holes in building façade for PTAC or through wall AC "cost" developers of new buildings in that building is penalized in terms of energy efficacy.
Again as have stated frequently enough, there's a reason why new developments often resemble office buildings. Windows that don't open, or only partially, no window AC (obviously), and certainly no through wall PTAC or AC/heating units. As with commercial/tall buildings city pushes developers of new residential to be "tight" and air exchange with outdoors done and controlled by central HVAC systems.
Hot water is another thing. In Europe and other parts of world instant water heaters have long been standard for most residential. You've got a water heater in or somewhere near kitchen, then another same for bathrooms.
It also is not uncommon in many parts of Europe for an apartment to have electric boiler that provides hot water for heating and perhaps other purposes as well.
Given high cost of land and other costs in doing a new building developers try to wring as much out of every square inch per apartment in multifamily housing. So space under a sink or wherever for instant water heater normally is out on that score alone.
With this new mandate will be interesting to see what developers come up with, *and* more importantly how city uses sticks and carrots to keep them from passing most or all costs of heating, hot water and cooking (electric) onto tenants.
Owners of an apartment complex out on Roosevelt tried to install individual heating (electric), but tenants weren't having any of it.
Bottom line electric heat pumps suck. I don’t care if they cheaper to run they cost more to install. I know 3 people worth them and 2 of the homes are only 4-6 years old. All of them hate it and wished they had gas or oil still.
They're also not cheaper to run. The argument that electric heat pumps are more "efficient" is dishonest. Yes, they're more efficient bat the device level but you need more electrical energy to produce the same unit of thermal energy when compared to Nat gas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor
The technology's already there
Passive houses don't get built because they would effectively kill the whole HVAC and heating industry
Same reason hempcrete not being used
Technology always kills an industry or changes the status quo
"cough cough" WFH
Do you really think that's how tech works? That there's a huge worldwide conspiracy? There are pros and cons to every technology..
Usually, widespread technology is widespread for a reason.
Problems with that apartment complex out on Roosevelt Island likely factored into things that saw this dog of a new law not demand retrofitting of existing buildings.
Majority of housing in NYC is rental. Of those numbers a very large percentage of tenants are busted, broke, and or on tight monthly incomes. Then you have the not so small number (nearly 60% or more) of apartments that fall under rent control, rent stabilization, NYCHA, subsidized low income (including vouchers, etc...) where tenants are protected from paying full cost of their housing. You suddenly tell those tenants they are going to have to pony up for electric heat and there is going to be plenty of economic trouble.
Ironically some of the most energy wasteful housing in NYC is NYCHA and other public. GD buildings over heated in winter (with apartment windows wide open), or people are using air conditioners in winter (to cope with all that GD heat), all because someone else pays their electric bills. Yes, know it's included in rent but charges are nothing reflecting actual usage.
Problems with that apartment complex out on Roosevelt Island likely factored into things that saw this dog of a new law not demand retrofitting of existing buildings.
Majority of housing in NYC is rental. Of those numbers a very large percentage of tenants are busted, broke, and or on tight monthly incomes. Then you have the not so small number (nearly 60% or more) of apartments that fall under rent control, rent stabilization, NYCHA, subsidized low income (including vouchers, etc...) where tenants are protected from paying full cost of their housing. You suddenly tell those tenants they are going to have to pony up for electric heat and there is going to be plenty of economic trouble.
Ironically some of the most energy wasteful housing in NYC is NYCHA and other public. GD buildings over heated in winter (with apartment windows wide open), or people are using air conditioners in winter (to cope with all that GD heat), all because someone else pays their electric bills. Yes, know it's included in rent but charges are nothing reflecting actual usage.
As if NYCHA tenants, or most rentals in NYC for that matter, have thermostats
I don't like how you talk about certain people, it's very unbecoming of you
What other people eat don't make you - you know the rest
__________________
"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
The question, at least for this thread, is more what's going to happen moving forward. In the past, landlords paid for heat, and some even had to pay for electricity, based on the way the buildings were built. Going forward, I have a feeling tenants in new buildings will be paying for their own utilities (I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't built with individual water meters, so that tenants even pay for that.) This is unless someone in the city council thinks of this.
If the LLs don't pay for heat, they're going to have very little interest in how much it costs to provide it. So they may not care about these city mandates. But tenants will be paying (out the nose) for them for decades.
Indian Point Energy Center was a three-unit nuclear power plant station located about 36 miles north of Midtown Manhattan. In 2019 when Indian Point was operating NYCs electrictiy came from Natural Gas (58.3 %) and carbon emission free Nuclear (40.2 %),
Indian Point has permanently ceased power operations as of April 30, 2021. The original 40-year operating licenses for Units 2 and 3 expired in September 2013 and December 2015, respectively. The application for license extensions to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) was moving toward granting a twenty-year extension for each reactor.
However, partly due to pressure from local environmental groups and New York State Governor Andrew Cuomo, it was announced that the plant would shut down by 2021.
Now NYC's electricity will be almost completely generated from natural gas. At the same time natural gas for cooking and heatinb is being prohibited in favor of electricity (which chef's hate).
How many summers in a row now have we had warnings to "limit" our AC usage on even slightly hot days because the power grid is just barely handling it? It for sure happened this year in July/August.
So does anyone know how will this silly ban apply to old stock single family housing or older buildings? For example, if in 2024 I buy an apartment in a pre war building with a gas hookup, will I be forced to get rid of it and instead have to install an expensive new 240V electric line into the kitchen? What if I buy a house? Same deal?
In a few short words.....Natural gas ........A no brainer...............
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