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Three new natural-gas fired power plants: Bayonne Energy Center, CPV Valley Energy Center, and Cricket Valley Energy Center were built, with a total capacity of 1.8 GW, to replace the 2.0 GW of carbon-free electricity of the nuclear powered Indian Point energy center 36 miles north of Midtown Manhattan which ceased all operations on April 30, 2021.
Indian Point had over 14 years left on it's certification and it provided 25% of the electricity used in New York City and Westchester County.
New York State Governor Andrew Cuomo continued to call for closure of Indian Point.[
Quote:
Originally Posted by minnomaboidenapolis
So does anyone know how will this silly ban apply to old stock single family housing or older buildings?
In light of shutting down Indian Point and replacing it with 3 natural gas plants electrical genrating facility I would say any insanity is possible.
So does anyone know how will this silly ban apply to old stock single family housing or older buildings? For example, if in 2024 I buy an apartment in a pre war building with a gas hookup, will I be forced to get rid of it and instead have to install an expensive new 240V electric line into the kitchen? What if I buy a house? Same deal?
Retrofitting of any building was not mandated. Only new construction.
Still haven't found an answer to query about if this dog of a law applies to single-three family homes. That is are they included in "new construction seven floors or less).
The question, at least for this thread, is more what's going to happen moving forward. In the past, landlords paid for heat, and some even had to pay for electricity, based on the way the buildings were built. Going forward, I have a feeling tenants in new buildings will be paying for their own utilities (I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't built with individual water meters, so that tenants even pay for that.) This is unless someone in the city council thinks of this.
If the LLs don't pay for heat, they're going to have very little interest in how much it costs to provide it. So they may not care about these city mandates. But tenants will be paying (out the nose) for them for decades.
Individual water meters are OUT as neither state nor city has passed laws on how that would work.
As for poor tenants being forced to pay their own electric for heating, cooking, and whatever else there is bit of that going on already. Some new construction has master meter with tenants paying prorated share of total building's use.
You just know long as liberal, left, woke, progressive democrats run this city they will keep an eye on things. If a new building is "green" but tenants pay for electric besides say cooking, mayor and or city council will act.
NYC government has a few sticks and carrots they can use, at least when it comes to "affordable/low income" and or other housing paid for in whole or part with city funds.
Retrofitting of any building was not mandated. Only new construction.
Still haven't found an answer to query about if this dog of a law applies to single-three family homes. That is are they included in "new construction seven floors or less).
This is what the official law says:
§ 28-506.1 Prohibited Emissions in New Buildings. New buildings shall be subject to the emissions limits set forth in section 24-177.1. The commissioner shall not approve an application for the approval of construction documents, nor issue any permit in connection therewith, for a new building that does not comply with section 24-177.1.
Exceptions:
1. A building that is seven stories or more where an application for the approval of construction documents is submitted on or before July 1, 2027.
2. A building that is less than seven stories where an application for the approval of construction documents is submitted on or before December 31, 2023.
Based on my best guess, I believe it also applies to "new construction" single-three family housing. So basically any new house with plans approved after 12/31/2023 will have to go all-electric. Whoever builds after then will surely be in for some "unexpected" costs
What I'm still unclear on is, will this also mean any *permits* for construction within an existing apartment building or house, with a gas line, also be subject to a gas ban?
So basically, if I buy a house or apartment in 2024 and I choose to gut renovate, will I be forced to abandon the existing gas line and waste a ton of money on a stupid heat pump, power hungry induction system, etc?
What I'm still unclear on is, will this also mean any *permits* for construction within an existing apartment building or house, with a gas line, also be subject to a gas ban?
So basically, if I buy a house or apartment in 2024 and I choose to gut renovate, will I be forced to abandon the existing gas line and waste a ton of money on a stupid heat pump, power hungry induction system, etc?
Yup.....
Simple solution.
Gut renovate everything but the kitchen.
Developers love this too and I wouldn't be surprised if developers had their hand in this as well. Not building cooking gas lines into buildings saves on costs and they'll sell at the same NYC prices. I'm sure some of those cost savings will flow into politicos pockets.
Before the law some of them already did that but they had to compete against those that didn't. Now the new market is electric only so everyone's on an even playing field except for the customer.
Welcome once again to NYC. Corrupt politicians screwing taxpayers.
Submetering is more of a retrofit thing. Most newer buildings have direct Con Ed meters for each apartment. For older buildings, this would mean a big rewire job to get the meters to one location.
I think for submetering they can stick the meters wherever they need to, and the LL's people read them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal
Individual water meters are OUT as neither state nor city has passed laws on how that would work.
As for poor tenants being forced to pay their own electric for heating, cooking, and whatever else there is bit of that going on already. Some new construction has master meter with tenants paying prorated share of total building's use.
You just know long as liberal, left, woke, progressive democrats run this city they will keep an eye on things. If a new building is "green" but tenants pay for electric besides say cooking, mayor and or city council will act.
NYC government has a few sticks and carrots they can use, at least when it comes to "affordable/low income" and or other housing paid for in whole or part with city funds.
I just stumbled on this forum from a "active threads" link, and I feel for you all...
I live in a rural area of Alabama, close to a fast growing city, but I don't have natural gas available where I live. I do have a wood stove, and grow/cut my own firewood - so hopefully that is carbon neutral...
Our electricity is mostly from the nuclear plant and hydroelectric, so it it cheaper than most areas of the country. Have a new minisplit coming in the spring, (and it doesn't get that cold here) so it will be fine for summer cooling at a reasonable price. Heating is basically going to cost me some exercise time...
That said, I do agree that nat. gas is far superior to electric, and the appliances using gas last a lot longer than electric powered ones. I've worked in food related fields for years, and the natural gas stuff is way faster and does a better job cooking evenly. Even in commercial large scale cooking using steam, the boilers have been natural gas powered due to it usually being cheaper and more reliable.
This sounds like (other than infrastructure upgrades and resulting costs) to be an expensive manufactured shortage of power, that was not well thought out, and doesn't help the people that have to live under those rules.
Merry Christmas, and I hope it all works out for you!
Master electric metering was big for new construction back in 1950's and 1960's. Rates were comparatively low and multi-family housing could tout "electricity included" as part of amenity pitch to lure residents.
But to be fair back then largest electricity draw was fridge with perhaps AC, and not everyone had the latter.
Fast forward to now and you've got residents totally wired up. One, two or more large televisions, computers, chargers, etc... Now you're going to add cooking and anything else that involves generating heat formerly done via gas.
It's not fair for say someone who is say single, hardly home, travels a lot, etc.. and thus uses very little juice to pay same usage as a household of two, four or more that uses electricity as if it were water.
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