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Old 01-09-2022, 10:20 AM
 
2,948 posts, read 1,291,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownpine View Post
Many economists thought that NYC would die during the Great Depression of the 30s, the '75 bankruptcy crisis, the S&L crisis of the late 80s, and other historical events leading up to today. NYC has always bounced back when businesses, entrepreneurs, and residents worked together to make things happen. Despite the naysayers, I believe NYC will bounce back from this pandemic.



If every Wall Street bank has a vaccine mandate as most of the large ones do, where are the ex-staff going to go? You say the threats are empty but most bank employees are already vaccinated. So apparently, they didn't think the threat was empty. And for the ones that don't comply, they should absolutely get axed.



I'm not familiar with the old NYC model that you're referring to. If you're referring to WFH, I agree that it is here to stay. But with smart policy planning - lower taxes, housing, transportation, etc. - the city can adapt and thrive...but only if office work is still a significant part of company policy. Otherwise, surrounding businesses will fail because there isn't enough foot traffic and customers to sustain their businesses. And without a sufficient labor force to work in the food and retail sectors, NYC will never bounce back.
Lower taxes? You don't seem to understand how the modern NYC works.

Also, NYC has already bounced back (thanks to the federal bailout). The question isn't whether NYC will."bounce back" but what will the NYC 5-20 years down the line look like.

Maybe the future of NYC is not to have so many low wage workers being subsidized by higher earning taxpayers?
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Old 01-09-2022, 10:30 AM
 
621 posts, read 245,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esacni View Post
Lower taxes? You don't seem to understand how the modern NYC works.

Also, NYC has already bounced back (thanks to the federal bailout). The question isn't whether NYC will."bounce back" but what will the NYC 5-20 years down the line look like.

Maybe the future of NYC is not to have so many low wage workers being subsidized by higher earning taxpayers?

Please read my posts in total. I stated lower taxes in the context of policy planning. In other words, if NYC (and the state) commits to lowering taxes in order to keep businesses and the middle-class from leaving, that is an example of smart tax planning.



And understand that these "low wage workers" that you seemingly look down upon is what keeps the city moving. When you go to a hotel, a restaurant, a supermarket, a retail store, who do you think is in there keeping those businesses afloat? It's not a programmer or banker that stocks the shelves and cooks the food. NYC has always been a place for low-wage workers. The problem is that it's become impossible for these low-wage workers to remain here because the COL is too high and their employers are paying too little. So the result is that they have to rely on subsidies to stay and work and provide the goods and services that you enjoy. But make not mistake - a lot of high-earners take advantage of the subsidies too. My wife works in healthcare and you I have been shocked to hear about how these people are paying for healthcare with government funds. So don't pin the subsidy argument on low-wage workers alone.
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Old 01-09-2022, 11:03 AM
 
2,948 posts, read 1,291,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownpine View Post
Please read my posts in total. I stated lower taxes in the context of policy planning. In other words, if NYC (and the state) commits to lowering taxes in order to keep businesses and the middle-class from leaving, that is an example of smart tax planning.



And understand that these "low wage workers" that you seemingly look down upon is what keeps the city moving. When you go to a hotel, a restaurant, a supermarket, a retail store, who do you think is in there keeping those businesses afloat? It's not a programmer or banker that stocks the shelves and cooks the food. NYC has always been a place for low-wage workers. The problem is that it's become impossible for these low-wage workers to remain here because the COL is too high and their employers are paying too little. So the result is that they have to rely on subsidies to stay and work and provide the goods and services that you enjoy. But make not mistake - a lot of high-earners take advantage of the subsidies too. My wife works in healthcare and you I have been shocked to hear about how these people are paying for healthcare with government funds. So don't pin the subsidy argument on low-wage workers alone.
We can't lower taxes without shrinking the size of the welfare state.

Low wage workers don't keep this city moving anymore than any other workers but they require a lot more taxpayer money.
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Old 01-09-2022, 01:10 PM
 
34,224 posts, read 17,309,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownpine View Post
[color=navy]

I'm not familiar with the old NYC model that you're referring to. If you're referring to WFH, I agree that it is here to stay. But with smart policy planning - lower taxes, housing, transportation, etc. - the city can adapt and thrive...but only if office work is still a significant part of company policy. Otherwise, surrounding businesses will fail because there isn't enough foot traffic and customers to sustain their businesses. And without a sufficient labor force to work in the food and retail sectors, NYC will never bounce back.
Life changed. As I detailed, even hybrid knocks out 125 million visitors annually to NYC. That means most restaurants with significant 2019 corp business fail.

Businesses do not owe it to NYC or any mayor to artificially prop up any other businesses, such as restaurants.
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Old 01-09-2022, 02:00 PM
 
621 posts, read 245,285 times
Reputation: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esacni View Post
We can't lower taxes without shrinking the size of the welfare state.

Low wage workers don't keep this city moving anymore than any other workers but they require a lot more taxpayer money.

I don't know what planet you're on when you say that low wage workers don't keep this city moving more than anyone else. I guess you just don't eat out, shop, stay in hotels, take public transportation, obtain home repairs, etc.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Life changed. As I detailed, even hybrid knocks out 125 million visitors annually to NYC. That means most restaurants with significant 2019 corp business fail.

Businesses do not owe it to NYC or any mayor to artificially prop up any other businesses, such as restaurants.

Put yourself in the boots of business owners. Basic question: Why would you want to set up a shop in a city, pay taxes, hire workers, do business in said city, if the businesses around you are failing or struggling to stay afloat? It's in everyone's best interest to repopulate the office buildings. Look, I agree with you that WFH is here to say. But what we're talking about is the ability of a city to survive. If you look back a few posts, I provided an article about the city of Toronto that is experiencing harsh growing pains dealing with WFH. Check it out and do your own research on how cities are performing with WFH policies.


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Old 01-09-2022, 02:20 PM
 
2,948 posts, read 1,291,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownpine View Post
I don't know what planet you're on when you say that low wage workers don't keep this city moving more than anyone else. I guess you just don't eat out, shop, stay in hotels, take public transportation, obtain home repairs, etc.
They don't keep it moving more than anyone else.

Eat out - how are they more import than farms, slaughterhouses, and food processing plants?

Shop- more important than the manufacturer of products and the logistics workers that get them to the store?

Public transportation - not low wage workers

Home repairs - not low wage workers

Low wage workers aren't more import than anyone else.
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Old 01-09-2022, 02:49 PM
 
34,224 posts, read 17,309,474 times
Reputation: 17293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownpine View Post
[color=Navy]



Put yourself in the boots of business owners. Basic question: Why would you want to set up a shop in a city, pay taxes, hire workers, do business in said city, if the businesses around you are failing or struggling to stay afloat? It's in everyone's best interest to repopulate the office buildings.


I would close the business, recognizing wfh made it the 2022 Horse & Buggy. No one has an obligation to repopulate any office just so other businesses can profit by it.
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Old 01-10-2022, 06:49 PM
 
1,052 posts, read 458,758 times
Reputation: 1635
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Originally Posted by TheWiseShopper View Post
Of course it does.
Oh no, I'm soooo scared. I recommend you quadruple mask 24/7 just to play it safe.

I am NEVER putting on a mask outdoors and I will proudly walk down the streets of Manhattan free of a face muzzle. Maybe I'll trigger a few woke-tards
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Old 01-10-2022, 08:08 PM
 
3,550 posts, read 1,465,939 times
Reputation: 2436
Quote:
Originally Posted by minnomaboidenapolis View Post
Oh no, I'm soooo scared. I recommend you quadruple mask 24/7 just to play it safe.

I am NEVER putting on a mask outdoors and I will proudly walk down the streets of Manhattan free of a face muzzle. Maybe I'll trigger a few woke-tards
Masks are a great tool because it allows you to live a normal life and at the same time, it keeps you safe. I don’t get why people make a hissy fit over it. We should be embracing face masks!
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Old 01-11-2022, 04:45 AM
 
416 posts, read 249,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseShopper View Post
Masks are a great tool because it allows you to live a normal life and at the same time, it keeps you safe. I don’t get why people make a hissy fit over it. We should be embracing face masks!
How does masks keeps the person safe when the purpose of the masks is to keep others safe?
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