Biden signals support for Second Avenue subway expansion to East Harlem (Buffalo: home, neighborhood)
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Parts of the rational of going uptown first had to do with the budget and that there were some parts of existing tunnels going uptown (though that didn't end up helping all that much I think), there were fewer tunnels to wind around going uptown and that it could be done as an extension of an existing line thereby starting with a large expansion of single-seat ride start/end pairs. That by itself isn't too bad as part of rationale, but what was bad was splitting it into four phases and especially the first two phases which were all uptown extensions of an existing train service which should have been done in one go.
What makes most sense is what a lot of cities in developed countries around the world have done which is to basically use their commuter rail services like RER/S-Bahn services where they operate essentially as somewhat like express trains on steroids and run through the urban core covering large distances between stops and with a line passing through or a spur that goes to the airports. This is what should be done with pretty much all three airports and with all three commuter rail lines running interlined, through-running services. One decent way to do this for LGA would be a commuter rail extension from Sunnyside Yards which would mean rapid one seat rides to both Penn Station and Grand Central at the very least, and hopefully beyond that if the commuter rail operations were actually operated as through-running sections.
Really though, I feel, though not that strongly, that LaGuardia should be closed and redeveloped along with Rikers Island with the two connected to each other. It's a pretty hard argument to make now though after all that money recently put into renovations.
Ideally, LaGuardia shouldn't exist, however, where are you going to put all 25 million of its annual passenger count (2019 level)? EWR and JFK cannot absorb that without massive expansion including above all, new runways. JFK especially would benefit substantially from another set of parallel runways on the 4/22 axis on the west end if they could expand into the bay - this would enable double simultaneous landings and double simultaneous takeoffs ORD/ATL style. JFK in general needs an ORD-type airfield rearrangement as it has a large area but uses it very inefficiently.
But that won't ever happen so long as we have the crazy coalition of climate lunatics and tree hugging greenies worried about some exotic frog species in the bay.
Ideally, LaGuardia shouldn't exist, however, where are you going to put all 25 million of its annual passenger count (2019 level)? EWR and JFK cannot absorb that without massive expansion including above all, new runways. JFK especially would benefit substantially from another set of parallel runways on the 4/22 axis on the west end if they could expand into the bay - this would enable double simultaneous landings and double simultaneous takeoffs ORD/ATL style. JFK in general needs an ORD-type airfield rearrangement as it has a large area but uses it very inefficiently.
But that won't ever happen so long as we have the crazy coalition of climate lunatics and tree hugging greenies worried about some exotic frog species in the bay.
Some JFK, more into EWR, but mostly into the various regional airports and having better rapid express transit access to and among these. Improvements in terms of capacity and access would ideally be done while LGA is still up and ready and operating when it shuts down.
This crazy coalition has no real pull. It's a non-factor in this and frankly stupid to mention as if this were the main roadblock because it talks to how incapable people are in understanding and characterizing complex problem sets. I feel stupid for even having responded.
Some JFK, more into EWR, but mostly into the various regional airports and having better rapid express transit access to and among these. Improvements in terms of capacity and access would ideally be done while LGA is still up and ready and operating when it shuts down.
This crazy coalition has no real pull. It's a non-factor in this and frankly stupid to mention as if this were the main roadblock because it talks to how incapable people are in understanding and characterizing complex problem sets. I feel stupid for even having responded.
It certainly is a factor, especially when you have prominent democrats (who control this state and city top to bottom) saying 'climate change' is going to kill us all in 10 years and thus we shouldn't be investing in any infrastructure that will emit carbon (like airports and new highways). The evidence of this is that there has not been one serious proposal to expand JFK by adding new runways. Not a single one.
Newark might actually have a better shot at getting a new runway in this century than JFK does.
But I guess that doesn't truly matter since LGA is here to stay and siphon short-haul demand for a very long time.
Parts of the rational of going uptown first had to do with the budget and that there were some parts of existing tunnels going uptown (though that didn't end up helping all that much I think), there were fewer tunnels to wind around going uptown and that it could be done as an extension of an existing line thereby starting with a large expansion of single-seat ride start/end pairs. That by itself isn't too bad as part of rationale, but what was bad was splitting it into four phases and especially the first two phases which were all uptown extensions of an existing train service which should have been done in one go. It is costly to align the personnel, agencies and equipment and it is even more so to have to disassemble and reassemble them an additional time. If they do this expansion, then they should do it with at least one of the two proposed extensions that would continue the train service. When they do go downtown, they should also make that into a single segment though that would be much harder.
Extending into LaGuardia from where the Second Avenue Subway is is probably a pretty bad idea overall. It's not that LaGuardia doesn't need train service, but turning it from SAS is pretty goofy as the tunnel construction from there will be costly and forks off a route that isn't very express-service-y.
Plus factor in the number of stops it takes from Times Sq to Astoria Blvd, which is 10 stops, and compare that to the 7 train which has only 9 stops if you're lucky to catch the Flushing Express, but if not, then you'll have to contend with 19 stops if you take the Flushing Local. Plus the fact that the 7 train ends at Hudson Yards, but the W can travel as far as Lower Manhattan means that the W can be more utilized if the traveler is looking to going to points south of Times Sq for business or otherwise. As far as distance between the two subway stations and LGA, it looks like equal distance but the W has less stops , therefore it would be a more direct route than the 7.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Really though, I feel, though not that strongly, that LaGuardia should be closed and redeveloped along with Rikers Island with the two connected to each other. It's a pretty hard argument to make now though after all that money recently put into renovations.
If LGA were closed, then that would overload both JFK and EWR. That would be a logistical nightmare if that were to happen. LGA was never meant to be an international airport the was JFK and EWR are, but it serves the capacity in much the same way MDW does for Chicago in the fact that it's a secondary airport the way ORD is primary to Chicago in that JFK, EWR, and ORD serves int'l travelers around the world. Closing Rikers would be just as worse as well as the city isn't going to have a corrections center and the boroughs don't want to have to shoulder the burden of housing inmates nearby their neighborhoods.
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