MTA fare increase next year announced (New York, York: living, bus, to move)
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This fare increase still wouldn't be enough to fix MTA's ongoing costs.
This is an agency that spends $30 million for one staircase. In the private sector you could build a building with elevators and multiple staircases for this much.
Given how ad hoc mass transit funding in NYC and the massive maintenance and repairs backlog, and the US in general, generally is, I'd be surprised if there isn't a fare hike in the immediate future since there's little chance of having significant restructuring of the funding mechanisms and/or significant reform within the MTA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90sSitcom
I bet some of those suits cost as much as what us poor people pay all year for the subway
Yea, suits in the hundreds or (usually low) thousands exist.
There are multiple reduced fare programs for NYC transit out there and the one specific to income would be Fair Fare so if you haven't already, you should consider looking into it. This could be one avenue for MTA to go down which would be akin to what TfL in London had done where the sticker price of fares went up by quite a lot over a period of time where the base fare for a single ride is nearly triple that of NYC Transit's base fare, but there are multiple schemes that bring down the total for most workers and with extensive reduced fare programs for London residents in multiple brackets (MTA has some of this for example seniors which a lot of people on this forum would probably qualify for or are close to, people with certain disabilities and students). There are certainly other kinds of revenue setups for other large city systems and the key to them is that they're fairly stable and do not have nearly as much of an ad hoc nature as transit systems in major US cities do.
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Originally Posted by WithDisp
Demand better.
Raise fares.
Cut spending.
Lower taxes.
The most sickening agency in the world.
Revolutions where thousands died started over far less than these jackals do on a biennial basis.
I think raising fares is fine in and of itself given the current fare prices. I'd word things differently given the giant backlog of work MTA has where I think cut spending in terms of making things run more efficiently and lowering the costs of operating services per rider / per mile makes sense, but not necessarily cut overall budget. At the very least, MTA does need to greatly change how it works in regards to private contractors as their costs per item are insane as is the case for US infrastructure costs in general. There is a massive lack of transparency as well as a huge reliance on outside consultants for even fairly minor things and meanwhile that lack of internal expertise and transparency means there's little vetting process down the line for understanding what appropriate costs would be as well as signing off on projects, even minor ones, that constantly need change orders and blow out prices and timelines (and disruptions of service). This is something that plagues US infrastructure projects in general and it's ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deeken
Which clown is this you speak of cause I don't know a single NYC resident or anyone that has taken the Subway, bus, LIRR or Metro North that ever considered it a world class organization.
Yea, I've never come across anyone who has said with a straight face that MTA is a world class organization. What you're responding to is old Don Quixote charging at windmills except it's worse because it's less senility as it is intentionally manufacturing things to get angry at. There's nothing in the TOS about just straight up lying, so it's best to put him on the ignore list.
That would put it around $2.90 for next year for a single ride. I do think a sudden increase to $3.50 next year would be a horrendous idea though I think if done with other actions and reforms, moving to TfL's model of high initial sticker price isn't bad at least that would've been the case pre-pandemic. It's a harder call now with inflation greatly outpacing wage increases and ridership still at around 70% of previous levels. There are other models out there other well-functioning transit agencies use that could be moved towards, but the thing is it takes a lot of work to change multiple parts of the revenue streams and how the agency functions and is funded to get to such and meanwhile MTA still has a massive decades-long technical debt of sorts from not having incrementally, but substantially modernized and maintained for several decades. Even today NYC subway is still for the most part using an incredibly antiquated signaling system which is not very reliable while having a high cost of repair.
I think raising fares is fine in and of itself given the current fare prices. I'd word things differently given the giant backlog of work MTA has where I think cut spending in terms of making things run more efficiently and lowering the costs of operating services per rider / per mile makes sense, but not necessarily cut overall budget. At the very least, MTA does need to greatly change how it works in regards to private contractors as their costs per item are insane as is the case for US infrastructure costs in general. There is a massive lack of transparency as well as a huge reliance on outside consultants for even fairly minor things and meanwhile that lack of internal expertise and transparency means there's little vetting process down the line for understanding what appropriate costs would be as well as signing off on projects, even minor ones, that constantly need change orders and blow out prices and timelines (and disruptions of service). This is something that plagues US infrastructure projects in general and it's ridiculous.
I think raising fares is fine if it was coupled with other reforms to improve MTA spending efficiency and reducing costs. Raising fares just to cover extra costs that are approaching infinity is clearly not the solution.
The contracting done by MTA is mostly cost plus. Meaning, the vendors have an incentive to employ as many people as possible for the project. It doesn't matter how many audits or how much oversight you implement, if the contracting structure is done using the prevailing wages +% profit formula typical in MTA procurement. There is a reason why they have 50 people operating those TBMs.
Given how ad hoc mass transit funding in NYC and the massive maintenance and repairs backlog, and the US in general, generally is, I'd be surprised if there isn't a fare hike in the immediate future since there's little chance of having significant restructuring of the funding mechanisms and/or significant reform within the MTA.
Yea, suits in the hundreds or (usually low) thousands exist.
There are multiple reduced fare programs for NYC transit out there and the one specific to income would be Fair Fare so if you haven't already, you should consider looking into it. This could be one avenue for MTA to go down which would be akin to what TfL in London had done where the sticker price of fares went up by quite a lot over a period of time where the base fare for a single ride is nearly triple that of NYC Transit's base fare, but there are multiple schemes that bring down the total for most workers and with extensive reduced fare programs for London residents in multiple brackets (MTA has some of this for example seniors which a lot of people on this forum would probably qualify for or are close to, people with certain disabilities and students). There are certainly other kinds of revenue setups for other large city systems and the key to them is that they're fairly stable and do not have nearly as much of an ad hoc nature as transit systems in major US cities do.
I think raising fares is fine in and of itself given the current fare prices. I'd word things differently given the giant backlog of work MTA has where I think cut spending in terms of making things run more efficiently and lowering the costs of operating services per rider / per mile makes sense, but not necessarily cut overall budget. At the very least, MTA does need to greatly change how it works in regards to private contractors as their costs per item are insane as is the case for US infrastructure costs in general. There is a massive lack of transparency as well as a huge reliance on outside consultants for even fairly minor things and meanwhile that lack of internal expertise and transparency means there's little vetting process down the line for understanding what appropriate costs would be as well as signing off on projects, even minor ones, that constantly need change orders and blow out prices and timelines (and disruptions of service). This is something that plagues US infrastructure projects in general and it's ridiculous.
Yea, I've never come across anyone who has said with a straight face that MTA is a world class organization. What you're responding to is old Don Quixote charging at windmills except it's worse because it's less senility as it is intentionally manufacturing things to get angry at. There's nothing in the TOS about just straight up lying, so it's best to put him on the ignore list.
That would put it around $2.90 for next year for a single ride. I do think a sudden increase to $3.50 next year would be a horrendous idea though I think if done with other actions and reforms, moving to TfL's model of high initial sticker price isn't bad at least that would've been the case pre-pandemic. It's a harder call now with inflation greatly outpacing wage increases and ridership still at around 70% of previous levels. There are other models out there other well-functioning transit agencies use that could be moved towards, but the thing is it takes a lot of work to change multiple parts of the revenue streams and how the agency functions and is funded to get to such and meanwhile MTA still has a massive decades-long technical debt of sorts from not having incrementally, but substantially modernized and maintained for several decades. Even today NYC subway is still for the most part using an incredibly antiquated signaling system which is not very reliable while having a high cost of repair.
Obviously, I won’t go digging through tons of old posts but you LITERALLY claimed in one of them that the MTA is a world class organization. That’s a fact.
I think raising fares is fine if it was coupled with other reforms to improve MTA spending efficiency and reducing costs. Raising fares just to cover extra costs that are approaching infinity is clearly not the solution.
The contracting done by MTA is mostly cost plus. Meaning, the vendors have an incentive to employ as many people as possible for the project. It doesn't matter how many audits or how much oversight you implement, if the contracting structure is done using the prevailing wages +% profit formula typical in MTA procurement.
Yea, I agree with that in regards to reforms to improve spending efficiency so that each dollar spent yields more net benefit. How that comes about is sort of the question.
Figuring that out with the need to align so many agencies / stakeholders that operate as small fiefdoms with seemingly many of which having people in power that have little experience with an actually well-functioning system (I think that experience is part of why Andy Byford's brief tenure was able to create tangible improvements with NYC Transit in a very short time period, but the brevity of that tenure is also part of the insane structuring of MTA leadership) is a massive problem as are a massive backlog of deferred maintenance and modernization, several factors that are essentially outside of MTA's control even were it to be well run, a massive existing debt which require high debt servicing levels, and the lack of transparency alongside competitive bidding and in-house capabilities in order for the agency to understand if the staffing levels and prices contractors put out are reasonable though there's a problem where those last two require expenditures on that side upfront in order to increase efficiency in the future. With transparency would also mean some level of enforcement in terms of penalties and more tools for clawbacks for misappropriated funds and kickbacks for people within the agency. This is unfortunately a massive issue in US infrastructure in general and it's going to be a beast to tackle.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 12-01-2022 at 09:25 AM..
No one with any real talent goes to work for the MTA. An organization run by mediocre people can only do so much.
People with real talent do go work for the MTA--they just don't often stay there for very long because of all the mediocre, inexperienced (in regards to what a well-run transit system is) or outright ****ty people within or with substantial influence over the organization. That's a pretty huge part of the issues they have and part of what drives people with talent out.
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