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Old 01-29-2024, 06:14 AM
 
34,111 posts, read 47,343,484 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njrebel1978 View Post
By RELEASING criminals who do anything except for rape and murder, is the direct cause for INCREASE crime in NYC. Most people want LOWER crime, but liberal policies allow for catch and release! NYC was much safer under Gulliani and even Bloomberg because it was prior to no cash bail reform. Stores like Target did not have to lock up all their shelves PRIOR to no cash bail policies.
Are you familiar with the term "dollar bail?"
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Old 01-29-2024, 06:15 AM
 
Location: Elizabeth, NJ
1,153 posts, read 865,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
Are you familiar with the term "dollar bail?"
No, but what does that have to do with the facts presented above?
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Old 01-29-2024, 06:27 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njrebel1978 View Post
No, but what does that have to do with the facts presented above?
All the people you see that are getting released would have been held on dollar bail, since majority of people getting arrested for these petty thefts are transient and don't have income.

So what ended up happening is you wasted a bunch of resources basically supervising people for who jail or prison is not a deterrent, and it directly justifies a bloated law enforcement budget. Now that all of those thieves were off the streets, cops started running out of ppl to arrest, enter stop and frisk, which was constitutionally wrong and increased the discontent between many citizens and the police. Way to go!

Furthermore, if one can't afford a dollar bail, that also highlights my point which I reiterate, in a capitalist society, the only resource is money, and it is limited, so you're basically locking people up because they're poor, and they're commiting the crimes because they're poor in the first place.

Capitalist = individualist, so of course if your bank account is looking right, then you don't care unless you're affected directly (i.e. aww man Target locked up the deodorant). It's actually contradictory of me to use the term "capitalist society," because you cannot be a functioning society with such a high sense of individualism in terms of advancement and growth. Capitalist = one who capitalizes or takes advantage.
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Old 01-29-2024, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Elizabeth, NJ
1,153 posts, read 865,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
All the people you see that are getting released would have been held on dollar bail, since majority of people getting arrested for these petty thefts are transient and don't have income.

So what ended up happening is you wasted a bunch of resources basically supervising people for who jail or prison is not a deterrent, and it directly justifies a bloated law enforcement budget. Now that all of those thieves were off the streets, cops started running out of ppl to arrest, enter stop and frisk, which was constitutionally wrong and increased the discontent between many citizens and the police. Way to go!

Furthermore, if one can't afford a dollar bail, that also highlights my point which I reiterate, in a capitalist society, the only resource is money, and it is limited, so you're basically locking people up because they're poor, and they're commiting the crimes because they're poor in the first place.

Capitalist = individualist, so of course if your bank account is looking right, then you don't care unless you're affected directly (i.e. aww man Target locked up the deodorant). It's actually contradictory of me to use the term "capitalist society," because you cannot be a functioning society with such a high sense of individualism in terms of advancement and growth. Capitalist = one who capitalizes or takes advantage.
First off, before No cash bail failed reform laws, the bail set for crimes such as theft varied depending on the criminal history and was always much higher than $1. Jail time was a deterrent because guess what, CRIME WAS LOWER THEN hence why stores didn't have to lock up all their shelves. No resources were wasted because the SAME Correction officers were working in the jails no matter the reason criminals were there! Furthermore, I don't give a crap how POOR a crininal is. If they did the crime, they should do the time! Its that simple. But processing and releasing them is absolutely ENCOURAGEMENT for these thugs to do it again and they DO. The same goes for those arrested for violent assaults. Once released, they do it again and again!!

Capitalism has ZERO to do with criminals being released so they can continue to repeat crimes and make the streets unsafe to walk (which NYC is already at right now
in my opinion). Capitalism is simply allowing for fair competition among businesses. But this has zero to do with reason why crime is out of control in NYC.
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Old 01-29-2024, 07:13 AM
 
34,111 posts, read 47,343,484 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njrebel1978 View Post
First off, before No cash bail failed reform laws, the bail set for crimes such as theft varied depending on the criminal history and was always much higher than $1. Jail time was a deterrent because guess what, CRIME WAS LOWER THEN hence why stores didn't have to lock up all their shelves. No resources were wasted because the SAME Correction officers were working in the jails no matter the reason criminals were there! Furthermore, I don't give a crap how POOR a crininal is. If they did the crime, they should do the time! Its that simple. But processing and releasing them is absolutely ENCOURAGEMENT for these thugs to do it again and they DO. The same goes for those arrested for violent assaults. Once released, they do it again and again!!

Capitalism has ZERO to do with criminals being released so they can continue to repeat crimes and make the streets unsafe to walk (which NYC is already at right now
in my opinion). Capitalism is simply allowing for fair competition among businesses. But this has zero to do with reason why crime is out of control in NYC.
So you think it's fair that a klepto with money gets to post bail and a poor klepto has to sit? What message does that send? As long as I have money I can do what I want? It's the same crime.

Money is a tool used to control people to send them to work to ensure that the government has income to reap off of the labor.

If there's not enough jobs for everyone to sustain themselves, what do you think will happen. Everyone thinks the best of themselves and wants to get paid the most, but the only resource in capitalism is money and that's limited. So not everybody is going to get paid what they think they're worth.
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Old 01-29-2024, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Elizabeth, NJ
1,153 posts, read 865,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
So you think it's fair that a klepto with money gets to post bail and a poor klepto has to sit? What message does that send? As long as I have money I can do what I want? It's the same crime.

Money is a tool used to control people to send them to work to ensure that the government has income to reap off of the labor.

If there's not enough jobs for everyone to sustain themselves, what do you think will happen. Everyone thinks the best of themselves and wants to get paid the most, but the only resource in capitalism is money and that's limited. So not everybody is going to get paid what they think they're worth.
Lets just use the term "criminal" since thats what they are. I totally agree that its not fair that a rich person has the ability to post bail since they are also released back on the streets to continue and commit crimes just like a poor person. In MY ideal society, there would be no such thing as bail and everyone truly has the right to a speedy trail. Then, the punishment should fit the crime.
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Old 01-29-2024, 07:40 AM
 
34,111 posts, read 47,343,484 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njrebel1978 View Post
Lets just use the term "criminal" since thats what they are. I totally agree that its not fair that a rich person has the ability to post bail since they are also released back on the streets to continue and commit crimes just like a poor person. In MY ideal society, there would be no such thing as bail and everyone truly has the right to a speedy trail. Then, the punishment should fit the crime.
In my ideal society, there would be no crime. I'm curious as to why was that not your response.
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Old 01-29-2024, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Elizabeth, NJ
1,153 posts, read 865,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
In my ideal society, there would be no crime. I'm curious as to why was that not your response.
Well, Amen to that. No argument here to that
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Old 01-29-2024, 07:53 AM
 
1,302 posts, read 344,543 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
All the people you see that are getting released would have been held on dollar bail, since majority of people getting arrested for these petty thefts are transient and don't have income.

So what ended up happening is you wasted a bunch of resources basically supervising people for who jail or prison is not a deterrent, and it directly justifies a bloated law enforcement budget. Now that all of those thieves were off the streets, cops started running out of ppl to arrest, enter stop and frisk, which was constitutionally wrong and increased the discontent between many citizens and the police. Way to go!

Furthermore, if one can't afford a dollar bail, that also highlights my point which I reiterate, in a capitalist society, the only resource is money, and it is limited, so you're basically locking people up because they're poor, and they're commiting the crimes because they're poor in the first place.

Capitalist = individualist, so of course if your bank account is looking right, then you don't care unless you're affected directly (i.e. aww man Target locked up the deodorant). It's actually contradictory of me to use the term "capitalist society," because you cannot be a functioning society with such a high sense of individualism in terms of advancement and growth. Capitalist = one who capitalizes or takes advantage.
You know what’s hilarious? Countries which aren’t *capitalist* treat crime muc, much more harshly. Your entire argument is null and void.
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Old 01-29-2024, 08:07 AM
 
8,782 posts, read 5,077,447 times
Reputation: 21397
Crime is what Democrats like.
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