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During my childhood and in my adolescence (I was born in 1985, so this wasn't that long ago), both of my parents combined never earned more than $100,000 per year in 2009 dollars. We had a comfortable, middle class lifestyle in a very expensive place. Want to know how? My parents understood that in order to do it, our family of four would have to live in a modest 1070 square foot space and not have several luxury cars and luxury goods. Vacations, sports gear, good food, and retirement savings plans were all funded from that household income; it wouldn't have happened, however, if my parents insisted on a huge house. I have now lived in Miami, Boston, Madrid, and New York and understand that one cannot have champagne tastes on a beer budget; many people's expectations are completely out of whack with reality, especially here in the United States.
I think what he/she is talking about is how we take our quality of life for granted in the U.S. I've heard that the poorest of the poor here are about the equivalent of the middle class in some third world countries.
I think people are natural worriers. If they're not worried about where their next meal is coming from or whether their life is in danger, then they start finding other things to worry about. Like money.
You heard wrong. A statement like that is actually kinda funny. First of all, "the poorest of the poor" here in america, are homeless. Now, do you think that the "middleclass" in "3rd world countries" are homeless?
I live in Little Rock, which I realize is a completely different world than NYC. I've lived alone for the past four years, so I'm used to paying my own bills. I realize that everything costs way more in New York. I think that's probably because Arkansas just doesn't appeal to many people.
I think I'm good at managing money, I came from a lower class family, so I'm completely comfortable with budgeting. When I first moved to Little Rock, I only made $25K and I stuck to a budget of $100 a month for groceries, I didn't have cable or internet, and my apartment didn't have a washer or dryer. I lived there for a year, then I started getting raises, so I didn't worry as much after that. I'm pretty proud of that accomplishment
What really interests me about NYC is all the culture and diversity. Somebody else mentioned the NY-factor. That appeals to me.
You,my friend ,will be just fine in New York. You sound like you have a good head and you know how to use it. It also sounds like you have a good perspective. I am a teacher and I make way less than $100,000 and I live here very comfortably and enjoy everything that New york has to offer.
NY Trumped Miami in cost of living always, but I'm not here to debate that. You are missing my point - my point is that obviously MIDDLE CLASSDOM was a far stretch for them too. It is hard to compare the 2 places anyway, because what you get for your money is so different. You may pay a similar price in rent (and that is a far stretch), but what do you get for your dollar a smaller more cramped home with no amenities, versus where you grew up and the amenities were standard. I have a feeling you and I could go on and on about this, but (and this not a shot at you personally) I think that wisdom does come with age and I think that because of your age you have not had enough life experience here to know what really qualifies as Middle class.
that is what I'm sayin man - I'm not talking about going out to buy gucci and Louis - I just want the basic stuff that the average middle class american can get anywhere else. YES - I know no where else is NYC, but AGAIN, if you can't afford to enjoy those things because you are broke from paying rent, isn't that just like living in um atlanta without the amenities????
Indeed, in NYC it's much more expensive than other places to do that. No matter the definition of raw income and "wealth," when compared in the context of the costs of the other areas, NYC is definitely multiplied by large factors to be able to get the decent lifestyle. A house is one expense in a good school district, then you have train expenses, subway expenses, car expenses, etc. and that's before adding in groceries, dry cleaning, and child care/activities, which are all well above average too.
It's a myth to tell someone that they're wealthy when they want a nice house in good neighborhood for their families. Who said it has to be 3000+ square feet? Many people pay $600k+ for 2000 square feet or less in a decent area in the NYC metro area with a reasonable commute. It's possible to find something for less, but the commute can go to an hour and a half (or more) each way, or it needs renovation, so that cuts into the lifestyle with family time traded for a commute, diminishing middle class lifestyles even further.
ahhh - finally - I feel like people are on the same page - I'm not saying that things are unatainable here, but if you would like to live less than hour from the city it is hard to get that lifestyle with out a large ticket price.
I don't think $2,000,000 is really "RICH" in Manhattan. $2mm salary is obviously above average, but $2mm net worth in Manhattan is on the poor side IMO.
And Crisp just to add to what you said - You can still live comfortably in SFL on the amount you just stated. In all liklihood that is all I will make when I go there combined with my husband - it is all relative.
Chelsea,please forgive me for asking but do you own or rent your place? I ask only because I hardly pay any taxes after my deductions for mortgage and coop maintenance and other deductions.They used to take out about 1/3 out of me but then I would get a huge refund. So I set it up so they hardly take any taxes out at all and I still get a small refund.
I have a feeling you and I could go on and on about this, but (and this not a shot at you personally) I think that wisdom does come with age and I think that because of your age you have not had enough life experience here to know what really qualifies as Middle class.
That's a cheap shot. Again, I have lived in "expensive" places all around this country and in Europe. Have you? I funded some of my undergraduate education with loans and now I am funding the bulk of my law school education with loans. Have you? I read the census reports and am extremely well-versed in demographic/socioeconomic statistics. Are you?
Clearly my age doesn't have any bearing on what I know about money. I am entering my seventh year of post-secondary education and have had to work for a very long time. I am not a trust fund baby and know the value of the dollar very well. My hard-working middle class parents taught me that at a very young age.
If you want to live in your "lower middle class" fantasy-land with your $170,000 annual household income, go right ahead, but don't try to pass off your anecdotes as "truth" when the numbers are so clearly not in your favor. Again, a "regular" middle class household does not earn more than 95% of American households as yours does. My statistics speak for themselves, and my life experience is every bit as compelling as yours in our discussion of what is "middle class."
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