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Hello all. We have a 4 family house with an illegal cellar apt. We just got busted and in seek of some answers. Before I begin, here's a description of the apt:
- Kitchen has no stove, just a single electric induction burner, wood cabinets, granite countertop and a sink
- Bathroom has no tub, just shower, sink, toilet and marble tiling
- Second egress leading to the backyard
- Two bedrooms, both with at least 1 window
- Window or door leading outside in every room
- Ceilings are approximately 9ft high with recessed lighting and is about 3.5ft above grade
- The house was built in 1925.
Now for the scenario. An inspector somehow gain access and issued violations for illegal occupancy and something else. This happened two days ago and I haven't received anything yet so not sure exactly what was violations are (we don't live in the building). We are fully willing to make everything right and have already retained a lawyer to handle the tenant issues as well as consult with our architect. However we have some questions which neither are certain about and hoping to gain some insight here.
First question is, what are the fines we'll be facing? The lawyer seems to think if we resolve the tenant issue and restore the cellar back to what it was, we'll be facing nominal and maybe no fines. The architect on the other hand seems to think we'll get fined by the court as well as the DOB for work without a permit which can be substantial. The second question is, if we do get that fine and we revert it back to what it was, does the fine get dropped?
Third question, if we do decide to revert it back, would we have to take out the lighting and fixtures? Or would taking out the shower and room walls suffice? The architect seems to think that we can simply remove the bathroom and the electric burner and file the alterations for storage and laundry.
Fourth, some of the other tenants in the legal apts are section-8 participants. Would the city withhold rent payments because of the violations?
Finally, based on the description, how hard would it be to legalize it as a legal residence. Below is the best information I can find but not exactly sure if we qualify:
Sec. 27-2086 Occupancy of cellars and basements in old law tenements
1. No dwelling unit in the cellar of an old law tenement may be occupied unless it complies with the requirements of sections 27-2082, 27-2083, 27-2085 of this article or all of the following provisions:
Mod cut: copyright violation
I'm uncertain about points 2 and 3. Does it mean that half of the cellar needs to be above grade? If so, wouldn't it make it a basement?
At this point, we're not even thinking about that. We just want to get this over as soon and as cheap as possible. Any insight will be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by Viralmd; 12-02-2009 at 02:22 PM..
Reason: You can repost using a LINK.
Hello all. We have a 4 family house with an illegal cellar apt. We just got busted and in seek of some answers. Before I begin, here's a description of the apt:
- Kitchen has no stove, just a single electric induction burner, wood cabinets, granite countertop and a sink
- Bathroom has no tub, just shower, sink, toilet and marble tiling
- Second egress leading to the backyard
- Two bedrooms, both with at least 1 window
- Window or door leading outside in every room
- Ceilings are approximately 9ft high with recessed lighting and is about 3.5ft above grade
- The house was built in 1925.
Now for the scenario. An inspector somehow gain access and issued violations for illegal occupancy and something else. This happened two days ago and I haven't received anything yet so not sure exactly what was violations are (we don't live in the building). We are fully willing to make everything right and have already retained a lawyer to handle the tenant issues as well as consult with our architect. However we have some questions which neither are certain about and hoping to gain some insight here.
First question is, what are the fines we'll be facing? The lawyer seems to think if we resolve the tenant issue and restore the cellar back to what it was, we'll be facing nominal and maybe no fines. The architect on the other hand seems to think we'll get fined by the court as well as the DOB for work without a permit which can be substantial. The second question is, if we do get that fine and we revert it back to what it was, does the fine get dropped?
Third question, if we do decide to revert it back, would we have to take out the lighting and fixtures? Or would taking out the shower and room walls suffice? The architect seems to think that we can simply remove the bathroom and the electric burner and file the alterations for storage and laundry.
Fourth, some of the other tenants in the legal apts are section-8 participants. Would the city withhold rent payments because of the violations?
Finally, based on the description, how hard would it be to legalize it as a legal residence. Below is the best information I can find but not exactly sure if we qualify:
Sec. 27-2086 Occupancy of cellars and basements in old law tenements
1. No dwelling unit in the cellar of an old law tenement may be occupied unless it complies with the requirements of sections 27-2082, 27-2083, 27-2085 of this article or all of the following provisions:
Mod cut: copyright violation
I'm uncertain about points 2 and 3. Does it mean that half of the cellar needs to be above grade? If so, wouldn't it make it a basement?
At this point, we're not even thinking about that. We just want to get this over as soon and as cheap as possible. Any insight will be greatly appreciated.
1. Work without a permit = $5,000.00 minimum civil penalty.
2. You can only reduce if the fine if the work in the cellar was not completed, then you would pay based on the percentage of work done, but by your description, it sounds like the illegal cellar apartment is fully built, so you would pay the full fine.
3. There's no ifs ands or buts, you have to revert it back to its original condition for the violation to be dismissed. you have to take out the kitchen and the bathroom minimum. kitchen and bathroom indicates that somebody is living there. the most you can have down there is a powder room 5'-0"x5'-0" with only sink and toilet.
4. That i do not know about.
5. you need to hire an architect if you want to legalize the entire property and obtain a C of O. only basement apts are habitable. cellar apts are illegal because are 50% or more below grade, resulting in inadequate natural light and air. to achieve NYS standards, the operable area of the window must be 5% of the sq ft of the room for air, and 10% for light.
__________________
"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
Now our main concern is the work with a permit violation. On the paperwork, it has a resolve by date as well as what needs to be done. If we comply by the date, does the penalty get dropped or we pretty much have to pay it?
Now our main concern is the work with a permit violation. On the paperwork, it has a resolve by date as well as what needs to be done. If we comply by the date, does the penalty get dropped or we pretty much have to pay it?
there are going to be 2 separate fees - one from the buildings department and one from ECB court. if you comply by the date i believe the ECB court fine will get dropped but there's no avoiding the fee from the buildings department.
__________________
"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
I got an inspector notice left by my main door. Apparently someone reported to the city that I have an illegla apartement conversion basement in my house. First of all, I don't have an apartment in my basement. I do have individual rooms including my office and entertainment rooms. The Bathroom has only a Toilet, a tiny sink and a shower. No Kitchen. This basement was already built when I bought the house. Basement is 85% above ground level, and has three exits. I am in a really bad shape financially. What should I do? Should I let the inspection into the house. I can not afford a fine. ? Please help me with some answers. My next door neighbor told me that we learned that in the block ten houses were reported recently, including his house. So far we received 4 notifications from the inspector, but he is not opening the door following advises from his lawyer and architect. Should I do the same?
I got an inspector notice left by my main door. Apparently someone reported to the city that I have an illegla apartement conversion basement in my house. First of all, I don't have an apartment in my basement. I do have individual rooms including my office and entertainment rooms. The Bathroom has only a Toilet, a tiny sink and a shower. No Kitchen. This basement was already built when I bought the house. Basement is 85% above ground level, and has three exits. I am in a really bad shape financially. What should I do? Should I let the inspection into the house. I can not afford a fine. ? Please help me with some answers. My next door neighbor told me that we learned that in the block ten houses were reported recently, including his house. So far we received 4 notifications from the inspector, but he is not opening the door following advises from his lawyer and architect. Should I do the same?
let them inspect. if you have nothing to hide then why not let them in?
__________________
"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
let them inspect. if you have nothing to hide then why not let them in?
My Main concern is the shower and the individual rooms I have in my basement. Once again, I have an office, a gym room, and an entertainment room..I don't want to get a fine or destroy my basement
I have a basement that the bathroom, laundry room and stairs were all framed in when the house was built. The drains were all put in the bathroom and the laundry room is next to the bathroom.I came off of the laundry room water lines for the bathroom. I added three 20A circuits, using #12 wire, and a circuit for the bathroom. Do I need to have these things inspected?
I received a violation for renovating my basement, it is a $4K fine. I made it into a full studio apt with kitchen, bath, etc.....it has 3 means of egress, 3 full size windows, private entrance and walk-out access to the yard....nicer than most apts. The only catch is that it is a low ceiling, about 6.5 feet.
The most annoying part is that it was the con-edison meter reader who called the city to inspect...so don't ever let them into your building to read the meter....which goes more to my point of never letting anyone into your building unless they have a warrant to do so.
As for the fine, I will never pay it, and plan on never selling my building, so its moot. The threatening letters are entertaining though.
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Main concern
